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Ski-the-Teeners Standards

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Re: Ski-the-Teeners Ethics

Postby tmahon » Fri May 22, 2009 1:09 pm

RoanMtnMan wrote: I also agree that the details can be a little much, but I think they are important in this forum. Not just for standards, but for the education of those just starting their peak skiing careers or projects.

You're right. There's no denying that the details are important for the exact reasons you mentioned, but I've noticed that sometimes in these discussions the whole thing gets lost in those same details and the big picture gets brought down to debating about some stuff that people outside of this forum and even some within, don't care at all about. Not in the least. And as much as I too can be a stickler for these rules, the fact is the debate really only exists in a few places like 14ers.com and I doubt that will ever change.

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Re: Ski-the-Teeners Ethics

Postby doumall » Fri May 22, 2009 6:07 pm

tmahon wrote:If you want to read some stuff more on the "long view", try these links which help me to get the focus off the super-petty stuff and also might clear up some people's take on the use of ropes. Or maybe not:

An interview with extremely accomplished Stephen Koch - http://stephenkoch.com/2009/03/snowboar ... cent-talk/
A recount on the Hossack Macgowan - http://www.tetonat.com/2008/12/first-sk ... revisited/
Dawson's take on style -
http://www.wildsnow.com/articles/lous_b ... _V11_3.htm
The second descent of the HM - http://www.tetonat.com/2009/02/second-d ... and-teton/


Excellent links Ted, I wish I would have read them earlier. They really put a healthy perspective on our 14er skiing standards.

Re: Ski-the-Teeners Standards

Postby Bean » Fri May 22, 2009 6:41 pm

Why does this board break every single link it possibly can?
gdthomas wrote:Bean, you're an idiot.

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Re: Ski-the-Teeners Standards

Postby BillMiddlebrook » Fri May 22, 2009 8:01 pm

It wouldn't break the links if the poster would put the URL tags around them.

The forum software shortens urls and if the URL tags aren't placed around them in the post, they get broken. I'll look at the code to see if there's an easy override.
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Re: Ski-the-Teeners Standards

Postby Bean » Fri May 22, 2009 8:44 pm

I imagine most people don't stop and put URL tags around everything because it's not an issue on almost every other forum on the internets.
gdthomas wrote:Bean, you're an idiot.

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Re: Ski-the-Teeners Standards

Postby BillMiddlebrook » Fri May 22, 2009 8:52 pm

I just made a coding change that will force the forum to shorten URLs only when they are much longer.

Let's see how this link works without URL tags in my post:

http://www.14ers.com/routelist.php?peak=Grays%20Peak%20and%20Torreys%20Peak

Before the change, this would have been shorted and subsequently broken without having URL tags when I posted it. But remember, it will still truncate a URL if it has spaces in it.

This should help a lot, but won't change past posts. Sorry.
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Re: Ski-the-Teeners Ethics

Postby pioletski » Fri May 22, 2009 9:20 pm

RoanMtnMan wrote:I also agree that the details can be a little much, but I think they are important in this forum. Not just for standards, but for the education of those just starting their peak skiing careers or projects.


Right on. I have to admit that I find this kind of discussion tedious, but that reflects my generally rebellious attitude toward rules, authority and conformity. I'm at the beginning of my personal project, and I have modified my own standards somewhat as a result of this thread. Thanks for bringing it up, Roan. Let's go skiing sometime.
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Re: Ski-the-Teeners Standards

Postby RoanMtnMan » Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:03 pm

Resurrection of a thread. What are the thoughts on conditions? It has been a really boney year in CO. I have skinned more than my fair share of vert this year only to find that conditions were not what should be considered respectable. So obviously I skied down, but after some thought would never claim it out of respect for the previous project finishers. Billy-goating, side-stepping, or Davenporting, whatever the name, where is the limit? When I have spoken to some of the previous finishers, they always mention conditions, and the more I think about it, the more I understand the point. I know it is a personal thing, but there have certainly been some said and unsaid lines drawn.

Personally, I have come to the conclusion that conditions are indeed important. The art of timing avy and coverage conditions is 75% of the battle in this project. Rock hoping down a peak that usually holds good snow is just forcing things and not staying true to what ski mountaineering is about. Granted this is not an easy task in CO given our snowpack, but thus is the project I think.
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Re: Ski-the-Teeners Standards

Postby pioletski » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:13 pm

Roan, over the last couple of days I happen to have been contemplating these questions too. I recently read Lou Dawson's comments on Wildsnow (http://www.wildsnow.com/biography/lou_fourteeners.htm). He mentioned that there were a number of summits that he climbed and skied several times before he was satisfied that he had a descent that "counted" and that finding (or predicting) the right conditions was a big part of it. I began this project with the attitude that the aesthetics were the more important consideration, but have modified that - since I am "signing up" for a goal that inherently invites comparison to those that have done it before, I need to hold myself to their standards as well. Thus I will be repeating Bross, even though I believe I have skied it from the same point that many "successful" skiers have done, and Shavano, because conditions just didn't allow a summit descent on the day I was there.

I should also mention that the challenge of making a descent go from the summit has been highly entertaining at times...
The greater danger, for most of us, is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low, and we reach it.
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Re: Ski-the-Teeners Standards

Postby Jcwhite » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:29 pm

Here is my take on the subject.

Having had many a discussion with Lou about what he did, and the way the sport and goals have progressed, especially after Dav completed his project, there are some things that come to mind.
Lou was working with no worthwhile weather forecasts, no beta, no pictures, and few partners. The way I see it with the amount of shared information out there today there is no reason to do any less than Lou did on his project. What with snotel stations, noaa, caic, and the 100's of people who are probably trying to ski them all as we sit here and write about it. It is practically like having a "ski the 14ers for dummies book." The only thing added to the equation now is skiing and climbing abilities. I think if a peak can be gotten good, then do it. And please don't go and try to ski from the top of Wetterhorn.... Those skis are now my shotskis. I've moved on to skiing powder lately. It is nicer to my skis.
J
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming WOW! WHAT A RIDE."- Hunter S Thompson

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Re: Ski-the-Teeners Standards

Postby pvnisher » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:23 am

Jcwhite wrote:And please don't go and try to ski from the top of Wetterhorn....


Are you sure you're not just trying to keep the list of people who have done that exceptionally small? :P

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Re: Ski-the-Teeners Standards

Postby Jcwhite » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:31 am

Haha. I'd be super happy to see someone go back and repeat it. However, that person will have a date with the edge grinder afterwords.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming WOW! WHAT A RIDE."- Hunter S Thompson

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