Kit Carson in winter

Colorado peak questions, condition requests and other info.
Forum rules
  • This is a mountaineering forum, so please keep your posts on-topic. Posts do not all have to be related to the 14ers but should at least be mountaineering-related.
  • Personal attacks and confrontational behavior will result in removal from the forum at the discretion of the administrators.
  • Do not use this forum to advertise, sell photos or other products or promote a commercial website.
  • Posts will be removed at the discretion of the site administrator or moderator(s), including: Troll posts, posts pushing political views or religious beliefs, and posts with the purpose of instigating conflict within the forum.
    For more details, please see the Terms of Use you agreed to when joining the forum.
Post Reply
ptwobbabs
Posts: 71
Joined: 5/14/2008
14ers: 36  17 
Trip Reports (0)
 

Kit Carson in winter

Post by ptwobbabs »

Does anyone have any intel on climbing Kit Carson in winter? I have (very shady) plans to try from the Willow Creek drainage via the OB couloir or the Kirk Couloir (and then the Avenue), followed by a descent into the Spanish Creek drainage. Anyone completed anything like that? Thanks.
User avatar
globreal
Posts: 1885
Joined: 7/7/2008
14ers: 58  1  26 
13ers: 198 2 6
Trip Reports (61)
 
Contact:

Re: Kit Carson in winter

Post by globreal »

ptwobbabs wrote:Does anyone have any intel on climbing Kit Carson in winter? I have (very shady) plans to try from the Willow Creek drainage via the OB couloir or the Kirk Couloir (and then the Avenue), followed by a descent into the Spanish Creek drainage. Anyone completed anything like that? Thanks.
Take a look at Kit Carson Avenue from this trip report.

http://www.14ers.com/php14ers/triprepor ... ki=Include" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

While it's unusual, it can get snowed in. This was after 4-6 big spring snow storms. There's also some pics of Kirk's Couloir. And I'll say it's a long way. We split it up over 2 days by hiking in and camping at Willow Lake and that worked great.

Good luck.
ptwobbabs
Posts: 71
Joined: 5/14/2008
14ers: 36  17 
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Kit Carson in winter

Post by ptwobbabs »

Thanks for the information. Your trip report was helpful. Sorry you guys didn't make both, but then that's not always the point is it?

Of course everything depends on the snow conditions, so I guess I'll just see for myself when I get there. I also am wondering about locating the correct exit off Kit Carson into the Spanish Creek drainage, since I would like to go up Willow Creek and then up and over into the Spanish Creek area.
User avatar
burningthebushes
Posts: 313
Joined: 9/7/2007
14ers: 58 
13ers: 25
Trip Reports (4)
 

Re: Kit Carson in winter

Post by burningthebushes »

Why spanish creek? Sounds like a nightmare in the snow, not to mention having to fight the yuppies when you get back to the Baca. I'd think the OB would be your best bet in and out, it would be much faster than dealing with the Ave under snow.
Andy
ptwobbabs
Posts: 71
Joined: 5/14/2008
14ers: 36  17 
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Kit Carson in winter

Post by ptwobbabs »

Yeah I actually have a week or two, and I want to head from the Spanish Creek area over Bear's Playground, into South Colony Lakes for a night, then out via Cottonwood Creek, which will probably be just as miserable as Spanish Creek, and get Humboldt and the Crestones along the way. But I've had this trip in mind for over a year, although the closer it gets the more in doubt i am about the conditions and the routes.....
User avatar
sgladbach
Posts: 1027
Joined: 10/17/2006
14ers: 58  58 
13ers: 710 37
Trip Reports (29)
 

Re: Kit Carson in winter

Post by sgladbach »

Of course it's been climbed many times in winter and conditions are everything.

Sounds like you plan to climb the OB and then wind up in Spanish Creek. Why cross Wit Carson Ave? You can simply descend Cole's Couloir (south couloir). Is it so that you can bag Challenger too? It still could be preferable to re-trace the Ave to get into Spanish Creek via Cole's Couloir.



In early winter, 1/7/06, Shanahan96 (Jamie) said:
"The avenue was all I had hoped for. A light covering of foot deep soft snow allowed us easy travel to the top of the Prow. Here I used my axe to break through a snowdrift to allow us a safe route forward. Then the Avenue started to descend…..........excuse me mountain gods, what is this nasty trick? Well, we’ve come too far for turning around and without ropes this technical rock to our lefts isn’t going to climb itself. Moving forward, the Avenue narrowed considerably but the snow conditions negated any major worries."

Same day referring to Cole's Couloir descent, Chicago Transplant said:
"From the summit we decided we didnt have enough daylight (or desire) to downclimb the southwest face, and headed to the south couloir for descent instead. About a 1/3 the way from the top we entered the couloir proper, donned crampons and headed straight down. The snow had a couple of solid parts, but moslty it was pretty punchy and frequently we were knee deep. Right now there is minimal avy danger, but new snow on top of the crust could be a potential problem if they got a big storm anytime soon. The couloir is probably the safest and most direct route at this time."

When I did my winter climb 3/15/06, the Ave was pretty imposing. It looked like this photo that Britt took 5/09:
http://www.14ers.com/images/trips/chal/ ... 2322_l.jpg

If you climb the OB and plan to nab Challenger via the Ave, you have to be ready for anthing from semi-dry to completely snowed in. Based on recent snowfall, I'd bet on conditions closer to the latter. Of course, if you went to the effort to cross the Ave for Challenger, it would be easy to follow your steps back to Cole's for the Spanish Creek Descent.

After we missed Kit in May 2009, I made two return trips w/ different groups to get kit. Here are the best photos I can find of Cole's The south Couloir):

lostsheep5 July, 2009
http://www.14ers.com/images/trips/kitc/ ... 4120_l.jpg

globreal Sept, 2009:
http://www.14ers.com/images/trips/kitc/ ... 0320_l.jpg

USGS Past two hundred millenia:
Image
If you choose Cole's to get to the Spanish Peak drainage (or kit Carson Ave for that matter), be particularly mindful of the avalanche forecast and your on-site evaluation.

A southwest face descent from the top of Kirk's Couloir is possible too. Shanahan96 describing the ascent of that side:

"The approach was enjoyable with mild scrambling and lessening snow levels. Soon, we reached the base of Kit Carson’s Southwest Face. Here we were tucked between the Prow and Challenger’s South Face and it was an awesome sight to behold. The wall started easily. We climbed class 3 conglomerate a couple hundred feet before traversing left. The increasing angle and exposure was exhilarating. All the while, we kept traversing towards the couloir between Challenger and Kit Carson.

The base of the couloir was reached at 13,000 feet. It looked like a mirror image of the South Couloir on Kit Carson’s opposite side. We discovered expected sugar snow and were left with no option but to continue up the steepening wall. Mike was a beast and started flying upwards, up the now class four rock. Unlike him, I was tiring and picked my way slowly through this rock maze, staying 100-150 feet below him. My spirits were lifted when he raised his arms in triumph to signal his arrival at 13,800 feet and Kit Carson Avenue. Quickening my pace, I arrived soon after."

Bueno Suerte
Last edited by sgladbach on Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"We knocked the bastard off." Hillary, 1953
"It is not the mountain we conquer but ourselves." Hillary, 2003
Couldn't we all use 50 years of humble growth?
ptwobbabs
Posts: 71
Joined: 5/14/2008
14ers: 36  17 
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Kit Carson in winter

Post by ptwobbabs »

What you say makes sense. I would like to bag Challenger but it is really not high on the priority list. The most important thing is to get Kit Carson and to be able to safely descend into the Spanish Creek drainage. If I were sure the Avenue were good, I would go up the easier ridgeline on Challenger, take the Avenue to Kit Carson, then descend the South Couloir. Since I have doubts about the Avenue, I would rather ascend the OB couloir which at least has the possibility of a decent descent route off the other side into Spanish, and also I can scope out the avenue from that side if I am motivated for Challenger.
Thanks for your response, I really appreciate it. Thanks also for the warning of avy conditions, I will have to keep my wits about me to do this safely.
User avatar
sgladbach
Posts: 1027
Joined: 10/17/2006
14ers: 58  58 
13ers: 710 37
Trip Reports (29)
 

Re: Kit Carson in winter

Post by sgladbach »

Here is a TR that gives a good idea of wht the descent of Cole's is like when completely snowed in:

The photos aren't numbered so you will have to count through the whole report (which follows your anticipated route anyway! At least to photo #37.) The photos 25-37 start at the summit and show a descending traverse back to a point under the OB/ Cole saddle, then down the Cole. After photo #37, the guys climbed back up toward the Avenue and went over to Challenger (they were interested in being able to claim summit ski descents of both mountains.) I'm not certain at what elevation they started to climb back up (maybe one of them will see this and respond.) Take notice, though, that just past the lowest point of their ski descent, the Cole chokes down a bit, so the difficulties of a down-climb aren't quite over.

After re-climbing the Cole to KC avenue, photos #46-#58 show the route of the "missing" Avenue route over to the KC/Challenger saddle. I get poopy in the pants looking at those photos. When I did my calendar winter ascent, that's what the Ave looked like, but it's different being there and having control. Simply looking at the photos is spooky. You won't have coverage that complete either on the Ave or in Cole's, but as you can see, confident skills and knowledge with crampons and axe are a must.

I have no idea what your skills are, so I maybe I've only stated the obvious. I've followed Joe and Jordan's exploits for a couple of years and exchanged info/ideas. They are very competent and skilled; even though they are traveling independent and unprotected, that would be dangerous for most of us who use this site. I'm almost certain that the south facing route's I've discussed aren't nearly as packed in as those photos, but they will have plenty of areas of hard-pack and ice. If the avy danger is not high and the it's early in the day (or plenty cold), it IS a very reasonable trip for someone w/ the right skill level.

http://14ers.com/php14ers/tripreport.ph ... ki=Include


PS. Read some KC TRs from the east so that you locate the correct descent from Bear's Playground to S. Colony Lakes. It can be hard to see from the top.
"We knocked the bastard off." Hillary, 1953
"It is not the mountain we conquer but ourselves." Hillary, 2003
Couldn't we all use 50 years of humble growth?
ptwobbabs
Posts: 71
Joined: 5/14/2008
14ers: 36  17 
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Kit Carson in winter

Post by ptwobbabs »

Thanks for the info and the link to the TR. It's very nice to see some pictures from someone doing pretty much the exact same thing. Everything appears doable, except I am in doubt about whether I will actually attempt the Avenue. I most likely will pass on it to conserve mental energy for the downclimb of Cole's. And thank a lot for the reminder about the descent to South Colony from the Bear's Playground. I've been over that ridge once but would rather descend a couloir from Bear's Playground than redo the ridge.
Post Reply