BackcountrySkier missing after avalanche near Hut

[Carl]

Reliance on gadgetry & on others cheapens the experience, to my mind. Not everyone feels this way & to each his or her own. For those who choose to rely on themselves to the exclusion of gadgets & rescue, they'd better be prepared to accept the consequences if something goes wrong. The consequences may be death but I never expected to live forever, regardless of what I did or didn't do. There are worse ways & places to die than mountaineering accidents.

So you're including avalanche beacons in that gadgetry that you choose to forgo because it cheapens the experience and places reliance on others?

[TomPierce]

Regarding the "expert halo" effect, it's something I've been aware of for years mostly through reading some studies about varying levels of avalanche training. A few studies coming out of some snow study researchers, etc. Pretty interesting stuff, and it confirms the halo effect. I wonder, however, if the posts above are mixing two somewhat related concepts: training and experience. I think (?) the studies confirming the halo effect draw a correlation between the level of training and the increased likelihood of getting nailed in a slide, but I don't think the correlation was made between likelihood of being a victim and years of experience. Not positive about that, just a recollection. Thoughts?
-Tom

[rickinco123]

Tom fair point. I have 2 uncles born and raised ( 4th generation ) up in the high country in avy terrain. Neither of them has ever had training and they have both made it into their 60s, one of them has to go through avy terrain everyday by snowmobile to get home. Loads of experience, especially where they are located.

[Jcwhite]

Reliance on gadgetry & on others cheapens the experience

Somewhat of an absurd statement.

I mean...you are on the internet right now....on a climbing site...

Beacon's are important. Whether to save a life or for a body recovery. It makes it safer for those who have a moral, or personal obligation to each other or to others to help someone in trouble, or to recover a body for the families. If you go into the mountains and get yourself buried, why put rescuers/body recoverers in danger trying to find you? To say that they cheapen an experience seems almost a suicidal attitude to me.

[Jcwhite]

What good is it if one is skiing or climbing alone?

See above post.

[TomPierce]

Hey Rick,
I wasn't finding fault with the prior posts, it was just a lightbulb that went off as I was reading the posts. I find decision making studies/scenarios really interesting. FWIW, I fall in the category similar to your uncles: years of climbing but I've only taken one class many, many years ago. But it was a good one! Several multi-hour lectures by Knox Williams over the course of 2-3 days, then a full day field session. I've decided not to take more training to up my chances of not getting nailed in a slide.
-Tom

[Dancesatmoonrise]

On a much better note the missing snowboarder near Wolfcreek has been found alive and well...
http://www.gazette.com/articles/wolf-94 ... alive.html

A solid rationale for SAR's staying with these efforts for days until the MIA is found.

[Dancesatmoonrise]

Regarding the "expert halo" effect, it's something I've been aware of for years mostly through reading some studies about varying levels of avalanche training. A few studies coming out of some snow study researchers, etc. Pretty interesting stuff, and it confirms the halo effect. I wonder, however, if the posts above are mixing two somewhat related concepts: training and experience. I think (?) the studies confirming the halo effect draw a correlation between the level of training and the increased likelihood of getting nailed in a slide, but I don't think the correlation was made between likelihood of being a victim and years of experience. Not positive about that, just a recollection. Thoughts?
-Tom

This is an excellent point, Tom.

[Carl]

So you're including avalanche beacons in that gadgetry that you choose to forgo because it cheapens the experience and places reliance on others?

What good is it if one is skiing or climbing alone?

Your comment was clearly made in relation to an accident where the victim was not traveling alone. Nonetheless, I think Jordan's response to your inquiry pointedly sets forth the most compelling reasons for wearing a beacon solo in the backcountry in avalanche terrain (1) love for your family and friends and (2) respect for search and rescue organizations. I also find it's nice to wear it solo in case I happen to meet up with a person or group that wants to make some turns together or am asked to assist with an accident (both of which have happened more than once).

I wonder, however, if the posts above are mixing two somewhat related concepts: training and experience.

Good point. I think the distinction can be significant.

[Jcwhite]

...the most compelling reasons for wearing a beacon solo in the backcountry in avalanche terrain (1) love for your family and friends and (2) respect for search and rescue organizations. I also find it's nice to wear it solo in case I happen to meet up with a person or group that wants to make some turns together or am asked to assist with an accident (both of which have happened more than once).

Transceivers are expensive. If SAR groups want people to have them, maybe they should loan them out or give them away.

And what of your family?

SAR operations are more expensive. It's about taking a little bit of responsibility as a human being. Your type of thought is downright ridiculous. There are plenty of places to rent them (inexpensively).

[Moboy56]

i noticed this thread and have a quick question. i'll be out there in may to for a snow climb, i would like to carry a beacon. could someone tell me where i could rent one? i'll be in the denver area.
thanks in advance
dw

[Jim Davies]

If you're concerned about SAR finding your body, you might as well just wear RECCO reflectors, not a transceiver. Lighter and cheaper, and searches can be done by helicopter.