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Lincoln/Bross route question

Colorado 14er peak questions and conditions should be posted here. 14er Trip Reports
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Re: Lincoln/Bross route question

Postby Jim Davies » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:12 pm

Lemmiwinks wrote:So are there any access issues if I want to try Democrat's North Ridge this summer?

Yes, the upper north ridge is private property (and I believe it's owned by the Reibers who definitely want you to stay on the trail).
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Re: Lincoln/Bross route question

Postby Scott P » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:59 pm

Although I'm all for obeying the law and encourage others to do the same, I do have a question.

If most of a route is through public land and crosses private land higher up, the property owner can apparently close his part of the private land to public access, at least that seems to be what is happening here.

In turn can the Forest Service also close their routes that access the private land? Technically, if they were an established/constructed route before 1976, they aren't supposed to. Then again, if they were a public use (history of use by the public) right of way before 1976, the land owners aren't supposed to be able to close the route to the public either.

Any lawyer type people here know how access right of ways work? Can the FS close the road across FS land so the private land owners owning the mining claims can't get to them. If the land owners cry foul under RS 2477 statues, they would also have to follow the same statues to open the ROW across their land as well.

I'm not suggesting that anyone go piss off a land owner and claim to be an expert on the law (which will not be good for access), but I'm just curious about this. PS, I am not saying that crossing any of this private land (other than the designated route through the land) is legal or suggest that anyone do so, I am just asking a question.
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Re: Lincoln/Bross route question

Postby jsdratm » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:48 pm

In some European countries you are allowed to hike through private land unmolested as long as you are not up to trouble. Unfortunately, the rural landowners in the US can be a little on the crazy side and even if it were legal I would be wary of attempting it, especially alone. If a crazy hillbilly in Colorado wanted to shoot you for being on their land, they could probably do it and get away with it. Just look at these recent horror stories:

http://storify.com/cbccommunity/latino-man-shot-in-driveway-mix-up-mourned-online

http://www.news-press.com/article/20120725/CRIME/120725029/Cape-Coral-man-charged-shooting-death-door-door-salesman

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Re: Lincoln/Bross route question

Postby Doug Shaw » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:06 pm

jsdratm wrote:Just look at these recent horror stories:


No, just look at this wikipedia page on the availability heuristic.

(Sometimes I wonder if I incorrectly classify some cognitive biases as the availability heuristic just because it's the easiest-to-remember of the cognitive biases.)

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Re: Lincoln/Bross route question

Postby Jim Davies » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:11 pm

The "make my day" law doesn't allow you to shoot anybody on your property. It has to be in a dwelling, and you have to feel threatened. A 2009 case of a used car dealer shooting a burglar in Colorado Springs led to a large civil penalty against
the shooter and an accomplice, although they weren't criminally charged (arguably this was due to politics, Boulder
County would probably have indicted).
http://www.gazette.com/articles/jury-123946-burglar-lot.html
But I digress...
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Re: Lincoln/Bross route question

Postby SteveBonowski » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:21 pm

For Jim D.: thanks for the info about the ATV guy. One of the fractional owners is from Kansas. And no worries about "nit-picking." Also, thanks for your reply about the north ridge of Democrat.

For Scott P.: hope you're staying warm up in "God's Country" (Craig). I'm not a lawyer. But there is a statute or regulations, or both, that private land owners have to be given access to a property across federal land upon request. I don't believe it's RS 2477 as that deals with rights-of-way.

There is a mine site north of Uncompahgre Peak that was proposed for re-opening several years ago; the Robin Red Breast mine. The proposal was fairly controversial as it's in the middle of designated wilderness, but access was a given. These sorts of issues are generally covered when an area is proposed for wilderness designation, but this one may have fallen through. Anyway, if I recall right, the guy didn't re-apply for state permits on a timely basis and was told to start over again; that due diligence thing. Nothing has happened since; in about two years; far as I know.

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