Kit Carson

[Roald]

Thanks for the post Logan14er, I was just wondering the same thing. Determined to get KC as early as possible this season. Let me know if you're looking for company whenever you do go.

[BKS]

http://www.14ers.com/php14ers/triprepor ... ki=Include" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BKS]

Above report is from a highly experienced team who said they wouldn't have done it without being roped up. One member fell and they all dug in axes to keep everyone from being drug off the face

[jdorje]

You can see a lot in the pictures in that report. The west-facing part before the Prow should hold snow longer; it is all in shadow in those pictures and doesn't get sun until later in the day. But the south-facing part holds a lot too. You can see the snow just piled up the cliff face above out of sight in a few places - some of these are gullies where from the valley I can see the snow going nearly to the summit. It takes a ton of melting before it's gone.

If you do make KC summit and don't want to return, you can descend with ice axe fairly easily down Cole's Couloir on the south side of KC. I think that's the picture posted of the easier terrain. Getting to KC summit that way is probably easier and a lot safer than getting to Challenger summit from the NE slope. It is a long way down to the road at 8250' elevation though, but then an easy hitchhike back to the Willow Creek TH.

Overall there have to be better mountains to climb in early June. KC and Challenger as a pair is one of the deadliest in Colorado - something like 7 deaths in the last 10 years.

[logan14er]

On your advice, I've fired my backup plan for Kit Carson next weekend, but do you thing that the ledge'll be clear for Jun 18/19 weekend?

[Monster5]

If you own snow gear and know how to use it, why not give it a shot? It's a moderate snow slope requiring fairly basic technique. Place the ax and kick out a good step for the way back. It'll likely hold snow until late June/early July this year.

Some of the portrayals on here are a misrepresentation over-exaggerating the difficulty.
-This is June snow, not February snow.
-The snow is not hundreds of feet deep.
-The members of the highly experienced team were not all highly experienced at the time.
-Many of the accidents are NOT due to the Avenue, but due to route-finding (missing the Avenue on descent) or shortcuts (Kirk Couly).

[SoCool]

If you own snow gear and know how to use it, why not give it a shot? It's a moderate snow slope requiring fairly basic technique.

There is such great advice in this thread, but some for some reason Monster5 insists the avenue "really isn't that sketchy." Perhaps his advice is more for the people at his experience level, which the OP does not seem to be quite yet. That TR posted above provides pics of the exposure.

I definitely found it very scary in spring, a few years ago, the Avenue was nonexistent- just a steep icy slope for quite a long distance. I most certainly classified it as a mistake for myself with the equipment I had with me. Mostly I just wanted to do the Outward Bound Couloir (amazing) in spring conditions, but found variable alpine ice conditions near the summit of Kit Carson that were somewhat sketchy, then the Avenue was just endless. Sure, I may have been less nervous with two axes, and of course being solo is moronic, but the fact remains that this is not a beginner snow climb, even if the snow conditions turn out to be perfect and the adventurer is quite early, like sunrise type early.

In summer, however, the Avenue is an incredible natural feature that simply MUST be hiked.

[Monster5]

No, I'm describing the slope as it is and not over-exaggerating it. It is a moderate slope, <50 degrees, in late spring conditions. That does not mean it is without exposure and without risk. It is a moderate snow slope splitting steep terrain. It requires experience and knowledge of ice ax and crampon use. I'm assuming that since the OP has this gear and asked if he should bring it, then he knows how to use it. If he finds the slope is too much upon arrival, then I assume he has the intelligence to judge it relative to his ability and turn around as necessary. Those skills are critical for Colorado mountaineering.

The advice on this forum tends to be conservative, which is good and reasonable. But, given the popularity of our peaks, the advice frequently crosses the line from conservative to inaccurate. If one cannot cross a moderate snow slope with one ax, much less two, then they should endeavor to place their faith and training in their technique, perhaps through classes, rather than mere ownership of the gear.

[SoCool]

According to this website, "moderate" snow slopes are less than 45 degrees:

Snow Steepness
Introduced by Gerry Roach, the following is a simple rating system for describing the angle of a snow slope:
Rating Steepness Range
Easy 0-30 Degrees
Moderate 30-45 Degrees
Steep 45-60 Degrees
Very Steep 60-80 Degrees
Vertical 80-90 Degrees

And it seems the OP does NOT have crampons. Even with, the exposure on this route just seems unnecessary, that's all.

[Wish I lived in CO]

Bump. Conditions?