Training for the Grand Canyon

Colorado peak questions, condition requests and other info.
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jomagam
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Training for the Grand Canyon

Post by jomagam »

Any suggestions for trails around Denver to prepare to the GC ? Based on my memory from 5 years ago and quick research, it should be minimally technical medium steep (10-15%) and long trail. But please correct me if I'm wrong !
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climbing_rob
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Re: Training for the Grand Canyon

Post by climbing_rob »

Tell us what you want to do in the Grand Canyon.... The main trails (bright angel, Kaibab) are easy trails, not steep at all (relatively), so no special training required, just Hike! Nice low altitude, lots of O's for us CO folks.

If you want to do a Huge hike, like the rim-rim-rim, just toughen up those feet. We do this every year (in the spring) and train by taking super long (20 mile) city-trail walks after work (highline canal trail, Platte trail, sharptail, others). My wife and I also climb Mt. Morrison at least once a week in the evening (~2000' vertical, 2 hour round trip). Weekends are, of course, devoted to "normal" climbing trips.
pbakwin
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Re: Training for the Grand Canyon

Post by pbakwin »

Since it's a long and fairly consistent grade down to the river, I'd think anything with a long and consistent grade would be good. The Barr Trail comes to mind.
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Motown Mike
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Re: Training for the Grand Canyon

Post by Motown Mike »

I walked down the South Kaibab a few years ago and was far more tired at the bottom of the Canyon than I was when I hiked out via the Bright Angel. I think the mule steps and the jarring of my old bones probably was far more stressful on the way down that on the way back up. Don't forget ... you need a backcountry permit to camp at the bottom of the Canyon. The hike was spectacular any way you look at it. Down and up in the same day is pretty much a waste of time... there is alot to watch at Phantom Ranch and Bright Angel... raft trips stopping off, wildlife, mule drivers... and night at the bottom of the Canyon is an experience all by itself. I spent two days at the bottom .. the Park Rangers are a wealth of knowledge... there are two lectures each evening, their rendition of the California Condors in the Grand Canyon is a memorable lecture. The Rangers walk in and out... 4 days on and 4 days off... when asked what walking out in the summer was like we learned that the trail was well marked enough to do it in the dark. The hike out, Bright Angel, over the Colorado and along the banks in the dark, (we broke camp at 5am (Late October), was really spectacular. From your question .. sounds like you are more than up to this walk just as you are...
peter303
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Re: Training for the Grand Canyon

Post by peter303 »

I'd say the basic loop on the maintained trail of South Kabib - Blue Angel loop is similar in effort to standard Elbert trail. The GC walk is little longer, but the the altitude is less of a factor. Summer can be broiling at bottom and winter icy at top. Outer tails ar more rocky and slower than the maintained trails. The rangers will always tell you its impossible to hike to the river in the day, but they are constantly rescuing out of shape people fooled by the easy downhill part.

Preparaton is the same for a 14er: runs for at least for an hour, multi-hour trail hikes, and altitude hikes.
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jomagam
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Re: Training for the Grand Canyon

Post by jomagam »

Thanks. I will run R2R2R. South Kaibab down, then North Kaibab up and down, then up the Bright Angel. Mid-April should allow 14 hours of daylight, but I'm flexible and will look at conditions more closely in the spring. I've been to the river and back up in the day (plus a sidetrip), and that's really not that hard.
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climbing_rob
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Re: Training for the Grand Canyon

Post by climbing_rob »

jomagam wrote:Thanks. I will run R2R2R. South Kaibab down, then North Kaibab up and down, then up the Bright Angel. Mid-April should allow 14 hours of daylight, but I'm flexible and will look at conditions more closely in the spring. I've been to the river and back up in the day (plus a sidetrip), and that's really not that hard.
Holler (PM) if you want to be on our training/email distribution for our early April Rim-rim-rim. We might have a large group this year, maybe close to 20. This will be the 12th annual RRR. I've mixed it up over the years, but settled the last couple on your exact route. If you want the best time, go back up the s. Kaibab and save 1.5 miles. I personally like the break at Indian gardens, hence the BA back up. Don't worry too much about daylight, though there is plenty in early April. I'm slower (~17 hours) so I start 2-3am or so and finish just before dark. going down the Kaibab in the dark is really not an issue. The NPS greatly improved the trail a few years ago. All it takes is a nice bright headlamp, held a waist level so all trail features cast shadows. I bring a 200 Lumen light that works for about 3 hours at that brightness level and all is good.

As I said earlier in response to your OP, this is all about foot/lower leg toughness. No one will believe this but it's true: Unless you are an elite trail runner and can do a sub-8 hour RRR, this is NOT an aerobic event. You can do a great time (11-12 hours) and never get a high heart rate going. It's about body resource management. Sorry, I tent to ramble on about this fun event!
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jomagam
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Re: Training for the Grand Canyon

Post by jomagam »

Thanks Rob, sending you a PM. I decided on this route to maximize scenery and variety; don't care about the extra 1.5 mile, especially since I'll probably do an extra two as a warmup from my parked car to the S Kaibab TH. Also, going up the SK in the afternoon might be a lonely adventure. I'll try to be in shape to do it in 12-13 hours realistically, and then I can start as the Sun rises and take in the scenery. Very worst case the slog up BA will end in the dark, but the views are not that great there, and tripping danger is minimal when going 2-3 mph. For training I'm trying to increase time on foot, and run downhills hardish too to get used to the pounding.
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Jeff Valliere
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Re: Training for the Grand Canyon

Post by Jeff Valliere »

RRR is my favorite run of all time, absolutely amazing, you will love it!

I have run RRR 4 times (always the 3rd weekend in April and several times associated with climbing_rob's group) and I have found that simply getting in a solid base of vertical in my legs to be more important than trying to replicate the actual gradient and trail conditions found in the Grand Canyon (though that factors in too to a certain extent). My longest training runs have been in the ~3 hour range, combined with some longer Winter days in the mountains that help with endurance. I would typically log ~150,000-200,000 vertical feet over the first few months of the year leading up to our April trip. The tricky part of running RRR in the Spring is that the longer ascents/descents found in the high country are snowed in and it is hard to really get in ~5-6,000 foot climbs/descents, so prepping your legs specifically can be a challenge. To compensate, I would just run laps on Green Mountain in Boulder, tag Bear/SoBo and such. To help toughen up my quads even beyond the normal runs, 5 or so weeks out, I would push hard once or twice per week (but not within 10 days of when I planned to run my RRR) for the 5 miles down Flagstaff Road, enough so that I would feel that "hurts so good" ache for a few days, but being careful to not cross that line of diminishing returns or risk injury.

When I ran RRR this year, I also used a pair of Hoka Stinson EVO Trail shoes. They will not compensate for any lack of training, but I found that the added cushion the Hokas offer, really help take the sting off the descents (and just the fact that you are on your feet all day) and allowed me to easily recover for a rim to river and back the next day (where on previous trips, I had to walk stairs backwards for days).

All of the above is just what worked for me (or at least I think it worked for me) and is really general of course, so you'll just have to take bits and pieces of advice and see what works best for you. I would be happy to answer any more questions you may have. climbing_rob, pbakwin and hoot are also great resources (as are a number of others that I know of on this site who may chime in).

climbing_rob, I hope to be there for Rim Job 12, I am waiting for the right time to ask for a 4 day hall pass, timing is everything.... ;)

Here are my reports from my last 3 RRRs in 2013, 2010 and 2009 where you might be able to get a bit more info:

http://www.jeffvalliere.blogspot.com/20 ... o-rim.html

http://www.jeffvalliere.blogspot.com/20 ... n-rrr.html

http://www.jeffvalliere.blogspot.com/20 ... 41809.html
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jomagam
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Re: Training for the Grand Canyon

Post by jomagam »

Thanks Jeff, that was super insightful ! I've been thinking about trying out the Hoka-s as well, but hoping that the craze will subside by next year and I won't have to take out a second mortgage. At a long run (6 1/2 hours) this weekend I realized that the bottleneck for me are the feet, so anything that saves them is a big win. Also glad that 3-hour runs were enough for you, which probably convert to 4 1/2 for me, but still much less than 6 1/2. How technical is North Kaibab ? I remember the South side to be easy, almost like the new Green - Bear connector. Is that north like that ?
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climbing_rob
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Re: Training for the Grand Canyon

Post by climbing_rob »

I did get your PM, and I'm forwarding your email to this year's (well, 2014...) organizer. the N. Kaibab is a fantastic trail, virtually all runnable. From Phantom ranch up, you have a 5 mile stretch called the Box that is very gradual, and trail runners can make great time here, both ways. There are a couple of stepper places approaching Cottonwood camp, and one stream crossing. Cottonwood is 7 miles up from Phantom. There are numerous steep places from cottonwood to the north rim, but this is THE most beautiful part of the trail. And easily runnable on the way down. Jeff, of course (8 hour total time!) runs most if not all of this on the way up. The last 2 miles might have a bit of snow, depending on this spring's snowfall. Some years it's nearly dry in early-mid April, some years it has been 2-3 feet deep in a few places, but rock-hard-packed by hikers/runners. It has never really been much of an issue, though one year the snow maybe added 15-20 minutes to the times. The timing is a trade off for north rim leftover snow and heat at the bottom, and the consensus is to deal with a tad of snow but be cooler at the bottom (i.e.: earlier is better). Last year we did the last week of March, but turns out this is right in the heart of spring break crowds (plus it was Easter weekend), so we're trying one week later this year. All previous years had been mid-April.
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Jeff Valliere
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Re: Training for the Grand Canyon

Post by Jeff Valliere »

Yeah, the Hokas are certainly pricey, I would be deterred as well (I test shoes for several magazines and confess that I get them for free). Having owned 5 different Hoka models since 2010 (Mafate, Bondi B, 2 pairs of Stinson EVO trails, Conquest and Rapa Nui 2 trail), they certainly do last longer than a "normal" shoe, but most of all have opened up opportunities for many to be able to run longer, recover faster, prevent injury or recover from injuries. I have run in shoes from all brands, well over 200 pairs in the past few years and I have to say that if somebody told me I had to pick one brand out of them all, it would be the Hoka. Occasionally, you can find a good deal if you troll Craigslist or the running forums, as people sometimes buy them and they do not fit quite right, or never get used to them. REI now carries Hoka as well, so if you are an REI member, wait until one of the 20% member sales occur, which would help take the sting off a little bit.

None of the main trails used for RRR in the Grand Canyon are that technical (though in my opinion are not quite as cruiser as the new Green/Bear connector). N. Kaibab has some rocky sections between the Roaring Springs residence and the N. Rim that you don't really notice on the up (and might hardly notice if hiking), but if you are running and getting tired/sloppy on the descent, it can seem a bit more technical than it might otherwise. Then on the run back to Phantom Ranch, the rock slab water bars seem to double in height and seem more like hurdles...;).
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