The Guidebook of the Future

Colorado peak questions, condition requests and other info.
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peter303
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Re: The Guidebook of the Future

Post by peter303 »

My guidebook would have to survive rocks and droppingt, very wet environments, operate for a week, vegetaion blocking signals, etc.
Doesnt sound electronic to me.
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Brian C
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Re: The Guidebook of the Future

Post by Brian C »

ChrisRoberts wrote:What happened to looking at a mountain and figuring your own way up?
Your average person doesn't want to have to figure it out and likes knowing exactly what to expect. That's a big part of why websites like this are so popular. I do sure appreciate knowing what I'm getting into on occasion.

There is still lots of stuff out there for the adventure-types out there...

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Doug Shaw
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Re: The Guidebook of the Future

Post by Doug Shaw »

ChrisRoberts wrote:What happened to looking at a mountain and figuring your own way up?
I don't know, man, but if you figure it out let me know. I've been wondering the same thing about why people don't hunt and gather anymore.
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12ersRule
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Re: The Guidebook of the Future

Post by 12ersRule »

Brian C wrote:Your average person doesn't want to have to figure it out and likes knowing exactly what to expect. That's a big part of why websites like this are so popular. I do sure appreciate knowing what I'm getting into on occasion.
A remote controlled drone while hiking would be pretty cool. If you can't see a particular part of a route, just send the drone out to check it out. That is the future!
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ChrisRoberts
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Re: The Guidebook of the Future

Post by ChrisRoberts »

Brian C wrote:Your average person doesn't want to have to figure it out and likes knowing exactly what to expect. That's a big part of why websites like this are so popular. I do sure appreciate knowing what I'm getting into on occasion.
I do too if it requires anything beyond class 3, but it doesn't have to be an extensive description. Just something simple like "there's a weakness on the west face", the rest I'll figure out. I'm no rock climber, but if I was I'd definitely like to have definitive knowledge of where to climb...but that goes a bit beyond what I was suggesting about guidebooks for which 90% of routes are pretty much obvious.
Brian C wrote:There is still lots of stuff out there for the adventure-types out there...
This is still very true. I shouldn't complain too much
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Jim Davies
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Re: The Guidebook of the Future

Post by Jim Davies »

Doug Shaw wrote:
ChrisRoberts wrote:What happened to looking at a mountain and figuring your own way up?
I don't know, man, but if you figure it out let me know. I've been wondering the same thing about why people don't hunt and gather anymore.
You should repost your lament on http://www.survivalistboards.com.

To Chris: you can still do that, but does that mean everybody should? Also, be sure to avoid roads and trails on the way there, otherwise it doesn't count and you can't check it off your 14ers.com list.
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I Man
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Re: The Guidebook of the Future

Post by I Man »

dannyg23 wrote:
SilverLynx wrote: Personally I would like to see a winter 14er guidebook at some point but I know the niche for that is small.
There is a winter 14er guidebook, it's by Lou Dawson (actually it's two books). It's also the likely cause of 59 being the standard winter number as it was Ralston's guidebook of choice and includes No. Massive as it's own peak.
Those books are very useful and I've used them extensively.
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Furthermore
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Re: The Guidebook of the Future

Post by Furthermore »

There is no doubt that paper guide books are on the decline. As Sarah mentioned, why write a book when it's online for free. If one doesn't like the digital format, it is easy enough to print off the information. The lack of information on 13ers is the reason I wrote so many reports with a beta mindset. If I didn't write them, someone else would have.

I've started a small “project” which has been a time consuming headache. Due to the frustration and abundance of online information, I'm still debating if I should finish.

At least for me, the value of writing a 13er guide book or any other guide book, would have very little reward.
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Re: The Guidebook of the Future

Post by BillMiddlebrook »

Furthermore wrote:The lack of information on 13ers is the reason I wrote so many reports with a beta mindset. If I didn't write them, someone else would have.
And let me tell you, there are many of us who REALLY appreciate the time and effort you put into those reports. They have helped me plan many climbs
"When I go out, I become more alive. I just love skiing. The gravitational pull. When you ski steep terrain... you can almost get a feeling of flying." -Doug Coombs
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George James
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Re: The Guidebook of the Future

Post by George James »

Further wrote:If I didn't write them, someone else would have.
It's true. Trips will be reported and guides will be booked. You can't stop the epic death march of progress.

If something out there is a particularly enjoyable hike/climb/ski/etcetera, eventually it will become popular and find it's way into a guide. I guess you just gotta get out there and enjoy that kinda stuff before too many people broadcast it to the masses.
Last edited by George James on Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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DArcyS
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Re: The Guidebook of the Future

Post by DArcyS »

ChrisRoberts wrote:What happened to looking at a mountain and figuring your own way up?
Chris, this is a little bit like my question, "If people like hiking and climbing so much, why do people feel the need to drive their car -- and often at great risk to damaging their car -- as far and as high as possible up a peak to start their climb?" Because it's easier.

Derek and Sarah, thank you for your TR's over the time, they have been and will continue to be helpful.

But the online thing does limit a 13er book, unless you can put a spin on it, like skiing the 13ers or sleeping on the 13ers. As a pilot, Derek, perhaps you could write a book on buzzing people on top of the 13ers. There needs to be a little bit of a creative twist to it to pull it off. Otherwise you're writing to a group of people who for the most part don't need somebody telling them how to climb a peak. I suspect this is why Roach's 13er book hit a decline -- there are only a few peaks in there that an experienced climber will need a guidebook for, and that info can be found online.

One sign to me that guidebooks have reached a saturation point is that Roach no longer writes about routes, he writes about himself. Which goes to another point about why his 14er guidebook is still around -- his narrative is entertaining, relatively speaking.

One book I was sad to see go was Borneman & Lampert's book. The pity of that book's decline is that it gave historical information on the 14ers. Perhaps Bill should look into republishing that material on this site (after getting copyright permission, of course). A point of trivia regarding that book is this -- Walt Borneman published the book before completing all the 14ers. It wasn't until many years later that he finished the 14ers with a climb of Maroon Peak.
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Re: The Guidebook of the Future

Post by benners »

Just to play devil's advocate here, I'd argue that guidebooks still hold their value over TRs in several areas:

- As someone else said, there's just something about a physical hard copy that you can hold in your hand, beat up, mark up, etc (and I don't really consider a pile of printed 8 x 11 paper stapled together to be the same thing). I can't count the number of times I've sat down to read a guidebook while camping, sitting inside a tent on a rain delay, or at a TH before/after a climb. I wouldn't really consider doing this with a Kindle or an iPhone.

- Though details in guidebooks can become out of date, the same thing can happen with TRs and not very many people go back and edit theirs when information changes either. And there are always edition updates for books.

- The consistency of information in terms of style, presentation, and accuracy is hard to find online like it appears in a book (save for Bill's online guide, which he constantly updates, and others like it). Having a single person create all of the information in a single, authoritative place is a lot different than having to go online and sort through multiple TRs from multiple authors and take the average of all of their observations, hoping that the information is accurate.

- Guidebooks are great for ideas, and are often presented in a style that stirs a certain amount of inspiration in the reader, which I personally like a lot. They are also often much more detailed than TRs, and thus the nature of an objective is more completely conveyed to the reader.

- You don't have to stare at yet another computer screen (maybe this matters more to me than others).

Don't get me wrong I love reading and writing TRs, and they are still very useful in the absence of a guidebook. But if a guidebook exists, it's generally what I'll look to first. If I decide I want to go ski something in the Tenmile Range over the weekend, I'll go thumb through Fritz' book for ideas and find an outing that matches up with what I'm looking for. I probably would not go online and start searching for ski TRs on various Tenmile peaks, many of which might not have the kind of information I'm looking for, and spend the better part of an hour before arriving at an idea that I could have found in 5 minutes looking through his book.

Furthermore, Sarah, I'll echo that I'd buy a 13ers guide from you guys in a heartbeat, as I'm sure many others would. And writing one might just be more fulfilling than you think :wink:.
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