Avy Level 2?

[Dave B]

I'm hoping to take a level 2 class this winter and am looking for personal experiences that anyone would be willing to share. I took level 1 several years ago and a level 1 refresher last winter.

I'm hoping to stay FRange and given Markus Beck's loss of FS permit at Berthoud it seems that CMS is my only really option. This is pretty OK with me since I had a great experience with them for level 1. I'd prefer to not have to arrange a private group for this but if there was anyone interested it could be an option.

Anyways, are there any other offerings in the northern Front Range I should consider?

Any particular guides at CMS that are exceptional for level 2?

Are there best months to take level 2, i.e. I took level 1 as the second to last classes offered on a low snow year and we mostly only had isothermal snow to look at, obviously too early isn't good either...

Any opinions on the effectiveness of level 2 in comparison to simply logging more BC days with experienced partners? My career path is pointing in the snow hydrology direction so a better understanding of avalanche processes would probably be beneficial, regardless.

Speaking of which, I'll be moving to the Lafayette area come December and will be looking for some new touring partners so PM or post if interested.

[Brendan Magee]

I took the Level 2 with CMS about 5 years ago. I would say it has definitely made me more confident in my decision making in the backcountry. I ended up taking it in late February which was good because we had excellent snow coverage and depth so we were able to dig a lot of pits and we got some good skiing in as well. My instructor was John Bicknell who happens to be one of the owners of CMS. He was excellent and very knowledgeable. I would say if your career path is taking you towards snow hydrology, this does seem like it would be a good investment for you. Not only will it help you with your career but it will also make you more confident in the backcountry.

Also, I could always use more touring partners.

[SnowAlien]

I have started looking into Level 2 options as well. I am not limiting myself to Front range though, and have heard really good things about Silverton school from several sources now. I am hoping to get more familiar with San Juans snowpack, so a class there would work well for me. That said, I just started researching Level 2 options and open to other suggestions. Last year I took a Level 1 refresher with CBMG and it was an excellent experience, especially when paired with an awesome guiding tour in Crested Butte backcountry, and I completely don't mind going back Btw, our CBMG guide told us that AIARE Level 2 curriculum is undergoing change - potentially splitting into two directions - 1) an applied version for non-professionals touring the backcountry and 2) ski guides, patrollers, avy forecasters and such. In the first case, curriculum is going to be more applied to ski touring and in the 2nd case, geared more towards the snow science. I was going to wait a few years to see what curriculum will look like, but again, looking at some options that are out there. I can also use more touring partners.

[jmc5040]

Just to throw out there, I'm taking Level 2 through CMS January 15-18 this coming winter. When I signed up they hadn't even opened the course up yet so I know at that point there was availability.

I took a crevasse rescue course through CMS, which was good, but lacking in a few areas. I was glad to hear that CMS took our suggestions to heart and fixed what we believed was lacking. I'm banking on a solid Level 2 course through CMS for that reason and other good feedback.

[jmc5040]

I have started looking into Level 2 options as well. I am not limiting myself to Front range though, and have heard really good things about Silverton school from several sources now. I am hoping to get more familiar with San Juans snowpack, so a class there would work well for me. That said, I just started researching Level 2 options and open to other suggestions. Last year I took a Level 1 refresher with CBMG and it was an excellent experience, especially when paired with an awesome guiding tour in Crested Butte backcountry, and I completely don't mind going back Btw, our CBMG guide told us that AIARE Level 2 curriculum is undergoing change - potentially splitting into two directions - 1) an applied version for non-professionals touring the backcountry and 2) ski guides, patrollers, avy forecasters and such. In the first case, curriculum is going to be more applied to ski touring and in the 2nd case, geared more towards the snow science. I was going to wait a few years to see what curriculum will look like, but again, looking at some options that are out there. I can also use more touring partners.

I too have heard awesome feedback about Silverton Avalanche School and was really considering going that direction. What made me concerned was the fact that they suggest you arriving early if a big storm is brewing as they won't cancel the course if all passes are closed. With my schedule that was too much to commit to. If you have that flexibility I would jump on taking it at Silverton Avy School.

[Dave B]

Brendan, thanks for the first hand account!

Btw, our CBMG guide told us that AIARE Level 2 curriculum is undergoing change - potentially splitting into two directions - 1) an applied version for non-professionals touring the backcountry and 2) ski guides, patrollers, avy forecasters and such. In the first case, curriculum is going to be more applied to ski touring and in the 2nd case, geared more towards the snow science. I was going to wait a few years to see what curriculum will look like, but again, looking at some options that are out there.

This is rather interesting. I'd definitely be much more interested in the first option since forecasting skills just aren't that important (yet). I might try to contact AIARE about this and see if there is anything definitive. I'd be willing to wait one more year, but if it's two or more I'll probably just take level 2 this year regardless.

Just to throw out there, I'm taking Level 2 through CMS January 15-18 this coming winter. When I signed up they hadn't even opened the course up yet so I know at that point there was availability.

I took a crevasse rescue course through CMS, which was good, but lacking in a few areas. I was glad to hear that CMS took our suggestions to heart and fixed what we believed was lacking. I'm banking on a solid Level 2 course through CMS for that reason and other good feedback.

Glad to hear CMS took the advice to heart. I was pretty impressed with the efficiency with which the level 1 class was taught, especially after taking a couple other courses with volunteer leaders. I'll keep the Jan 15-18 dates in mind. I start a new job Jan 2nd so I don't think I'll have the 2 days PTO accumulated until sometime in Feb though unfortunately.

I think the Silverton or CB level 2 courses would be awesome but logistically difficult.

[Dave B]

Just got this response from Tom at AIARE re: level 2 curriculum:

Hi Dave, you are correct - we are looking at refining the recreational and
professional approaches to avalanche education in the US.

The proposal is currently in front of the American Avalanche Association
board for approval. It will basically develop two separate course flows
after the Level 1. There will be a pro track and a rec track.

The L2 rec track will likely take another year or two to fully develop.

Now, decisions decisions...

[brett.t.burch]

I took my Avy 2 in Estes Park this April with CMS, led by Russell Hunter, and was really happy with that. I think I was the only one in the class who wasn't an employee at a ski area, a snowboard instructor, etc.

[KyleS]

I too have heard awesome feedback about Silverton Avalanche School and was really considering going that direction. What made me concerned was the fact that they suggest you arriving early if a big storm is brewing as they won't cancel the course if all passes are closed. With my schedule that was too much to commit to. If you have that flexibility I would jump on taking it at Silverton Avy School.

I signed up for an avy class in Silverton a few years back and was ultimately shut out when Red Mountain Pass closed. The class went on without me, but the folks at Silverton refunded my money without any hassle.

[taylorzs]

I'm hoping to take a level 2 class this winter and am looking for personal experiences that anyone would be willing to share. I took level 1 several years ago and a level 1 refresher last winter.

I'm hoping to stay FRange and given Markus Beck's loss of FS permit at Berthoud it seems that CMS is my only really option. This is pretty OK with me since I had a great experience with them for level 1. I'd prefer to not have to arrange a private group for this but if there was anyone interested it could be an option.

Anyways, are there any other offerings in the northern Front Range I should consider?

Any particular guides at CMS that are exceptional for level 2?

Are there best months to take level 2, i.e. I took level 1 as the second to last classes offered on a low snow year and we mostly only had isothermal snow to look at, obviously too early isn't good either...

Any opinions on the effectiveness of level 2 in comparison to simply logging more BC days with experienced partners? My career path is pointing in the snow hydrology direction so a better understanding of avalanche processes would probably be beneficial, regardless.

Speaking of which, I'll be moving to the Lafayette area come December and will be looking for some new touring partners so PM or post if interested.

Hey Dave, I am pretty sure Marcus Beck is still teaching avalanche classes in the park this year, he just cannot teach on Berthoud anymore. That said I do not think CMS would be a bad option either. I took a glacier ski/ crevasse rescue class with them a few years ago. Andrew Councell taught it and is a guide I would recommend at CMS if you go that route. I believe he teaches avy classes there too. Either option would be good. I did my Level II at CMC_Edwards and thought the class was great but it is farther away. As far as the best time to take it, obviously depends on year but generally speaking I would recommend the middle of February to mid-end of March. This is the time of year that generally has the most complexity because the snowpack is deeper, the weather is slightly warmer but not getting consistently above freezing, etc... This time of year it is typical to find every type of weak layer as well as a snowpack that is often showing signs of rounding and gaining strength in places as well. Go too early and everything is facets and windslab and too late is rounds and corn. I think this time of year is the most consistent time to nail a really interesting complex snowpack most years. I do think taking level 2 is important to do and that you will get more out of it than if you just went out in the backcountry more. Both are really important. The idea behind avalanche education is for the class to give you a framework that is filled in with future experience. The structured environment of a class, both inside and in the field Is very valuable. I felt like I learned a lot and got a lot out of taking a level II and I was riding in the backcountry 150 days a year or so at that time. I live in Denver and am happy to get up for a tour sometime if we get our schedules together. Let me know if you have any other questions about level II.

[Ryan00000]

I took AIARE Level 2 from CMS in February 2014 and Level 1 in January 2010. Both times Russell Hunter was the instructor, he is a great teacher and fun to work with. I have done a number of classes with CMS and I can say all the guides have been great. If your career path is involves snow hydrology, AIARE Level 2 will help. I recently completed a degree in Land Use and GIS and took a special topics class on Snow Hydrology this spring, so I can attest that AIARE Level 2 was helpful in understanding snow hydrology. In fact AIARE Level 2 greatly influenced my senior project, which involved GIS and Avalanches. Another event you may want to consider in the Colorado Snow Avalanche Workshop on October 17.

Here is a link: http://avalanche.state.co.us/about-us/e ... -workshop/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My personal opinion is that Level 2 should be a normal progression a few years after Level 1, all the while logging trips with experienced partners. I got the opportunity to do just that last year and it was awesome.

If you are looking for partners I am in Edgewater and always looking for more rock/ice/ski people. PM me or reply if you are interested or want anymore information on Level 2.

[mtnfiend]

I'll give another nod to Marcus and Alpine World Ascents. Marcus is Swiss and has probably forgotten more about avalanches than most of us will ever know. Plus, his educational background is education, so not only does he know what he's talking about he knows how to transfer that knowledge - strangely undervalued skill in my observation.
And another thing, the other individuals who help him teach are extremely knowledgeable with avy forecasting and guiding experience all over the world.