Kedrowski: 2016 Ski Project Controversy

[moneymike]

It seems to me he has come clean about the important details. He is disavowing any claims of a ski record and, as I understand it, he is not claiming to have finished skiing the 14ers according to the "Dawson standard." He admits to not having skied the top 500' of Capitol. He also admits to not skiing the "middle part" of Pyramid. What exactly the "middle part" means is not entirely clear, but from what I understand, he is admitting to not getting it properly. He says 75 feet was melted out, but I assume he down climbed the entire steep upper section, since transitioning to skis on such a steep slope seems pretty nuts to me. In any case, as long as he is implying his descent was not proper, I don't think he needs to explain to the world the fine details of his errors. I don't go around telling the world about the details of my failed attempts or other f' ups, I just simply say I need to go back for it another time.

He came clean about Maroon peak, but also mentioned that he has skied it from the summit in the past. So, he doesn't need to repeat that one.

As for the details about Culebra, Blanca, Humboldt, Wilson Peak, and any other peak that the community finds to be suspect, perhaps the details will come out in the trip reports he says he will write. If he doesn't include all the details, I don't think the community really needs to get on his back. If he's not claiming to be a finisher, let's just consider this to be a work in progress.

As for Little Bear, Jesus Christ people, give the man some slack. I'm glad he's not dead. Let's not get too picky of how one must descend. I figure it's only a matter of time before some crazy kid hucks Cap's cliff band, and when he does, are we going to call that the cleanest descent ever, or are we going to nitpick the fact that his skis weren't touching snow for half the descent? I can nitpick something about every 14er ski finisher, and I'm sure every finisher can nitpick me. Let's not kid ourselves, and let's put the pitch forks away.

In regards to the criticism he gained from his ridge line skis to combine multiple peaks, isn't that what you would do if speed was your goal? I would never consider doing that for my project, but speed was never an issue for me. If I was going for speed, and I didn't have any rules about the aesthetics about the line or how much vert to descend, skiing the ridges is the obvious thing to do.

I understand he rubbed a lot of people the wrong way with his claims. I was rubbed the wrong way when I saw his claim of skiing from the summit of Humboldt to his camp, when I saw first hand the condition of Humboldt (and his tracks). But if he's coming clean in the end, I say all's well that ends well.

All in all, Jon, this was a pretty impressive feat. You're so close to finishing, keep it up.

[wildlobo71]

Mike I agree with 95% of all you say, and I want him to legitimately break any record he pursues. I just don't find any integrity about having to come clean after he's been called out. His post about finishing at Capitol was disingenuous at best and he never attempted to stop , or correct, those congratulating him for completing his goal - which is what they all thought - until he was called out.

[12ersRule]

So when is a legit record attempt supposed to start?

[Krullin_14ers]

It seems to me he has come clean about the important details. He is disavowing any claims of a ski record and, as I understand it, he is not claiming to have finished skiing the 14ers according to the "Dawson standard." He admits to not having skied the top 500' of Capitol. He also admits to not skiing the "middle part" of Pyramid. What exactly the "middle part" means is not entirely clear, but from what I understand, he is admitting to not getting it properly. He says 75 feet was melted out, but I assume he down climbed the entire steep upper section, since transitioning to skis on such a steep slope seems pretty nuts to me. In any case, as long as he is implying his descent was not proper, I don't think he needs to explain to the world the fine details of his errors. I don't go around telling the world about the details of my failed attempts or other f' ups, I just simply say I need to go back for it another time.

He came clean about Maroon peak, but also mentioned that he has skied it from the summit in the past. So, he doesn't need to repeat that one.

As for the details about Culebra, Blanca, Humboldt, Wilson Peak, and any other peak that the community finds to be suspect, perhaps the details will come out in the trip reports he says he will write. If he doesn't include all the details, I don't think the community really needs to get on his back. If he's not claiming to be a finisher, let's just consider this to be a work in progress.

As for Little Bear, Jesus Christ people, give the man some slack. I'm glad he's not dead. Let's not get too picky of how one must descend. I figure it's only a matter of time before some crazy kid hucks Cap's cliff band, and when he does, are we going to call that the cleanest descent ever, or are we going to nitpick the fact that his skis weren't touching snow for half the descent? I can nitpick something about every 14er ski finisher, and I'm sure every finisher can nitpick me. Let's not kid ourselves, and let's put the pitch forks away.

In regards to the criticism he gained from his ridge line skis to combine multiple peaks, isn't that what you would do if speed was your goal? I would never consider doing that for my project, but speed was never an issue for me. If I was going for speed, and I didn't have any rules about the aesthetics about the line or how much vert to descend, skiing the ridges is the obvious thing to do.

I understand he rubbed a lot of people the wrong way with his claims. I was rubbed the wrong way when I saw his claim of skiing from the summit of Humboldt to his camp, when I saw first hand the condition of Humboldt (and his tracks). But if he's coming clean in the end, I say all's well that ends well.

All in all, Jon, this was a pretty impressive feat. You're so close to finishing, keep it up.

Spoken like a true gentleman, Money. Thanks for chiming in. I have enjoyed following this thread.

[lodgling]

As for Little Bear, Jesus Christ people, give the man some slack. I'm glad he's not dead.

Not suggesting otherwise. But to give you an idea of where I'm coming from, when a LB ski I am aware of was accompanied by: a partner's uncontrolled slide, the tackling thereof in the (ultimately successful) attempt to stop said partner's slide, resulting in his own a yard sale slide that included going over two rock bands -- when that particular skier finally managed to stop, he picked up his mess, climbed back up above the start of the slide and skied it out in full.

[Carl]

It seems to me he has come clean about the important details. He is disavowing any claims of a ski record and, as I understand it, he is not claiming to have finished skiing the 14ers according to the "Dawson standard." He admits to not having skied the top 500' of Capitol. He also admits to not skiing the "middle part" of Pyramid. What exactly the "middle part" means is not entirely clear, but from what I understand, he is admitting to not getting it properly. He says 75 feet was melted out, but I assume he down climbed the entire steep upper section, since transitioning to skis on such a steep slope seems pretty nuts to me. In any case, as long as he is implying his descent was not proper, I don't think he needs to explain to the world the fine details of his errors. I don't go around telling the world about the details of my failed attempts or other f' ups, I just simply say I need to go back for it another time.

I think he is claiming to have skied all the 14ers. It's a little tough to follow.

He told the Denver Post that much and his website still says this:

I was able to complete the original and widely accepted ski list of 54 starting with Capitol Peak on June 4, 2015, and finishing with Longs Peak on June 3, 2016, done in less than one year. Dav’s Record is still on the table at 362 Days and I was able to hang in at 364 days. He and I are the only two people reported to have skied all the 14ers in less than a calendar year.

I suppose he intends to retract the part about skiing them all in less than a calendar year since he acknowledged yesterday that his only summit ski descent of Maroon Peak was several years ago. I don't think he has shared any pictures from skiing the top sections of Pyramid and Capitol yet but he says he got Pyramid this year and Capitol last year. It sounds like Pyramid had a short down climb in the middle, which I assume to mean the choke around 12k on Landry, but if it was skied otherwise I don't see why he wouldn't count it. We rappelled a section maybe 1,000 vert below the summit of the Needle that I think most of the finishers before us were able to ski. The pics of the Pyramid and Capitol ski descents will tell the story, which I think are reasonably expected, if he's claiming them.

[TallGrass]

I suppose he intends to retract the part about skiing them all in less than a calendar year since he acknowledged yesterday that his only summit ski descent of Maroon Peak was several years ago.

Have a link or screenshot of him saying that about Maroon?

While a correction that Kedrowski took 366 days, not 364, to ski "on" but not from atop (of ones others have summit-skied) the CO 14ers would be responsible and proper, I'd go by what is actually done or not done.

Same for the Denver Post who wrote:

When Kedrowski skied Longs Peak on June 3 and Snowmass Mountain on June 5, he was one peak away — Capitol — from shaving months off Davenport’s record. If you count when he skied Capitol Peak in June last year, he had skied all 54 peaks in 364 days, only two days longer than it took Davenort.

DenverPost_Jon_Kedrowski_just_misses_record.JPG (73.81 KiB) Viewed 3319 times

[Carl]

Have a link or screenshot of him saying that about Maroon?

It's in the update on his site from yesterday under the Maroon bullet point. He says he could have gotten the summit ski decent this season and that he skied from the top several years ago. http://14erskirecord.com/live-progress/. Looks like he came impressively close to getting them all in a short amount of time (be it a season or a year) but since he has stated that he isn't making such a claim I think the exact number of days is moot now.

[moneymike]

It seems to me he has come clean about the important details. He is disavowing any claims of a ski record and, as I understand it, he is not claiming to have finished skiing the 14ers according to the "Dawson standard." He admits to not having skied the top 500' of Capitol. He also admits to not skiing the "middle part" of Pyramid. What exactly the "middle part" means is not entirely clear, but from what I understand, he is admitting to not getting it properly. He says 75 feet was melted out, but I assume he down climbed the entire steep upper section, since transitioning to skis on such a steep slope seems pretty nuts to me. In any case, as long as he is implying his descent was not proper, I don't think he needs to explain to the world the fine details of his errors. I don't go around telling the world about the details of my failed attempts or other f' ups, I just simply say I need to go back for it another time.

I think he is claiming to have skied all the 14ers. It's a little tough to follow.

He told the Denver Post that much and his website still says this:

I was able to complete the original and widely accepted ski list of 54 starting with Capitol Peak on June 4, 2015, and finishing with Longs Peak on June 3, 2016, done in less than one year. Dav’s Record is still on the table at 362 Days and I was able to hang in at 364 days. He and I are the only two people reported to have skied all the 14ers in less than a calendar year.

I suppose he intends to retract the part about skiing them all in less than a calendar year since he acknowledged yesterday that his only summit ski descent of Maroon Peak was several years ago. I don't think he has shared any pictures from skiing the top sections of Pyramid and Capitol yet but he says he got Pyramid this year and Capitol last year. It sounds like Pyramid had a short down climb in the middle, which I assume to mean the choke around 12k on Landry, but if it was skied otherwise I don't see why he wouldn't count it. We rappelled a section maybe 1,000 vert below the summit of the Needle that I think most of the finishers before us were able to ski. The pics of the Pyramid and Capitol ski descents will tell the story, which I think are reasonably expected, if he's claiming them.

His latest post takes precedence over his previous posts. I feel like his latest post was an acknowledgment of the confusion he has caused, and an attempt to clarify things. I agree with you that there is still some ambiguity, but I don't see this as necessarily being intentional. In his latest post on June 16 he says "I’d like to clarify to my supporters what I did accomplish." Notice that skiing all of the 14ers is not something he stated he accomplished.

He may have claimed to have been a 14er ski finisher before, but a man can change his mind, especially after reconsidering the "guidelines" and "gray areas." This community has asked that he clarifies things, and that is what he seems to be doing, so let's not crucify him if his clarifications seem contradictory.

He didn't post pictures of Capitol because he didn't ski it. I think that's what he was trying to say. He says "This year I did not ski from the top 500′ of Capitol (with the exception of the summit ridge)." When he says "This year," I'm assuming he is talking about the June 4 2015 to June 3 2016 range. In other words, he is referring to his 2015 ski descent he did with me, Austin, and Jesse. This is truthful.

Regarding Pyramid, you know that mountain, Carl. Do you really think he skied the Landry line in June? That seems very unlikely to me. My assumption was he made one last valiant attempt on Pyramid, via the north as he did before, climbed to the summit, realized that it would be insane to ski that face in June conditions, and down climbed to the saddle. If he skied all of the Landry line except a short down climb through the exit couloir, I don't think he'd even mention it as a gray area.

Well, those are my assumptions. I could be wrong.

[BillMiddlebrook]

Well said, Mike

[Carl]

This community has asked that he clarifies things, and that is what he seems to be doing, so let's not crucify him if his clarifications seem contradictory.

I'm just trying to give the guy the benefit of the doubt and suggest we withhold ruling that he didn't ski the 14ers until he clarifies that he isn't claiming it or posts some pictures showing that he did it. I suggested he might be claiming that he skied all the 14ers because his website claims he skied all the 14ers. Ultimately it seems you and I are after the same thing, respect for Jon and respect for the project.

[SnowAlien]

Looks like he came impressively close to getting them all in a short amount of time (be it a season or a year) but since he has stated that he isn't making such a claim I think the exact number of days is moot now.

It appears that JK is making the claim

At the end of the day, I really am not that concerned. I still skied every single 14,000' peak in Colorado in 160 days, faster and more efficiently than any other person ever has.

http://us6.campaign-archive2.com/?u=034 ... e07821a260" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;