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Manitou Incline Alternatives Public Meeting 10/21

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Re: Manitou Incline Alternatives Public Meeting 10/21

Postby globreal » Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:01 pm

England wrote:
Jim Davies wrote: no pets

=D> =D> =D> =D> Doggie owners are losing ground, due to their own negligence. =D> =D> =D> =D>


I am a pet owner and love pets however, I did the incline today and was appalled at a huge, fresh pile left right in the middle of the downhill trail! Also saw a baggie left full of dog doo.

Why do pet owners leave this on the trail???? I don't get it.
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Re: Manitou Incline Alternatives Public Meeting 10/21

Postby Jim Davies » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:41 pm

George Kaplan wrote:Why does anything in detail need to be put into this law?

First of all, it's not a law, it's an agreement between Manitou Springs, the Cog railway company, Colorado Springs, and the US Forest Service. That's why it's complicated.

The parking situation is currently a mess, and needs to be fixed somehow. The proposal tries to deal with all the competing factions: Barr Trail overnight users, the Cog people, the residents on Ruxton (who are currently getting blocked out of their driveways and might not be able to get fire engines when they need them), etc. Oh, yeah, and the incline users.

The dawn-to-dusk restriction was inserted by the Colorado Springs Parks & Recreation department, who are going to be managing this operation when/if it's approved. Also, the incline itself needs repair; there are about 600 ties that need to be replaced (out of 1800? something like that). The drainage of the thing is bad; erosion is a problem in several places, and there's a pipeline buried next to the Incline that is important to keep working (it feeds the hydroelectric plant). There is no official ("system") trail for descending (just a web of social trails and the old road, which for some reason isn't an official FS trail). Getting Forest Service approval for the descent trail requires an environmental assessment, which is expensive and required by Federal law.

It's always easier to trespass than it is to get something "official" in place, but in the long run most people won't know the difference. Of course, when the task force surveyed incline users they found that about half didn't even know it was closed now (even though they all hiked past the "no trespassing" sign). :roll: The current situation can't last; eventually somebody (probably the cog) will close the thing for real, if something isn't done about it.

Rastaman566 wrote:Will there still be free parking anywhere?

Parking on Ruxton below the Iron Springs Chateau will still be free (probably, it's up to Manitou), although there will be fewer spaces than before because some will be reserved for residents, and some will be closed off to make way for a pedestrian path along the upper part of the road. Someday, maybe, if funds are found and the planets align, there might be a new, larger, free lot a little further down off the north side of Ruxton. I think that's in Phase C of the plan, where C stands for "Century". ;)
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Re: Manitou Incline Alternatives Public Meeting 10/21

Postby Dancesatmoonrise » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:47 pm

Thank you for the updates, Jim.

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Re: Manitou Incline Alternatives Public Meeting 10/21

Postby coloradokevin » Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:18 am

England wrote:
Jim Davies wrote: no pets

=D> =D> =D> =D> Doggie owners are losing ground, due to their own negligence. =D> =D> =D> =D>


I don't believe that's an entirely fair statement. Please excuse my deviation from the primary topic at hand here, but I do feel the need to say something in defense of dog owners, especially given the increasing number of trails that we've been excluded from in recent years!

In reality, a minority of irresponsible dog owners are making it harder for the majority of us (who properly manage our pets on crowded trails) to enjoy time exercising our pets in the great outdoors. In essence, I am also losing ground (along with some of the others on this site) thanks to idiots that have nothing to do with me, or my dog.

Seeing a pile of crap on a trail doesn't automatically mean that one can accurately say that "doggie owners" (in a collective sense) are all responsible for these messes. I'm just as tired of poop-hopping as anyone else, and I often have my dog with me on a trail. It's sort of like blaming all rock climbers for someone who goes out and ladder-bolts a popular trad climbing route, or looking with scorn upon all backpackers thanks to some idiot who decided to leave a bunch of trash behind at a camp site.

As for another person's question about the dog-doo bags left on trails... Some owners do this with the intention of picking the bags up on the way down. Others do so without any intention of retrieving the bags, which I think is worse than just leaving the poop unbagged in the first place. Personally, I'm not a fan of leaving visible trash bags on the trail, even if you do plan to pick them up on the way down (since everyone else on the trail that day will also get to "enjoy" that trash).

More often than not, you'll see that my furry poop-sock (err, dog) is wearing a backpack when she's hiking with me. Usually this backpack is empty, save for a healthy supply of poop bags. But, once my dog craps on the trail (which she does about 5 times per hike), her poop is bagged and she gets to carry it (that's only fair as far as I'm concerned... I have to pick it up, she has to carry it). On hikes where she isn't wearing her pack I always make an effort to conceal the poop bag off of the trail, in a place that I'll easily recognize on the return trip. This makes it easy for me to remove my dog's waste on the hike out, without creating an eye-sore for other hikers in the mean time.

There are some locations where I believe that a dog can poop in the woods with a greater degree of "freedom", but these places aren't typically featured on this site (in other words, 14'ers, open space parks, and popular forest system trails aren't on my list of approved places to leave poop behind).

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Re: Manitou Incline Alternatives Public Meeting 10/21

Postby Jim Davies » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:44 am

The Colorado Springs city council will be voting on the plan at their meeting tomorrow, Tuesday, February 22nd, 1 pm, item #7 on the agenda. If you're really bored at work, you can watch streaming video on springsgov.com.
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Re: Manitou Incline Alternatives Public Meeting 10/21

Postby Jim Davies » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:13 am

The council voted unanimously to approve the plan. The next step is the Manitou council vote March 29, followed by a Forest Service special-use permit, possibly next fall. Glaciers might destroy the incline before this gets approved, but it is progressing.
http://www.outtherecolorado.com/blogs/colorado-springs-oks-plan-to-open-incline.html
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Re: Manitou Incline Alternatives Public Meeting 10/21

Postby tenpins » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:37 pm

considering that an LZ for flight for life will be clear somewhere nearby, excluding dogs from the trail seems silly.

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