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Access to the entire Culebra range

Colorado 14ers access and fee issues only, please
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Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby davebobk47 » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:59 am

I hope to do this trip starting mid June and ending late July 2013. That Ken Nolan sounds like a very knowledgeable person, does he participate on this forum?


You may be able to find him on the LOJ forum. www.listsofjohn.com
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night, in the dusty recesses of their minds, awake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it reality." -T.E. Lawrence

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Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby MtHurd » Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:58 am

Here is a topo map of the area.

Culebra Peak Topo

The Roads of Colorado may be a little help. I'll check it when I get home.

The railroad tracks will be private property. You shouldn't have any problems until the train. There will be some 4 wheel carts in front of and in back of the train probably 5 km away from the train on each side. Hide when they come by.

If you choose to go over Big Costilla instead of Little Costilla, I do believe that most of that is on Rio Costilla Cattle Association land. You shouldn't have any problems during that time of the year as that is not hunting season. That portion is for hunters starting in September sometime. I believe there is a 4x4 road up onto the massif as well so keep your eyes open to make sure there are no vehicles around.

You best route into the Latir Peaks wilderness is the trail that goes from Forest Rd. 134 near Greenie Peak to the summit of Baldy Mountain. You can then hike down to Hart Lake and back up Latir Mesa. Or you can keep going and bushwhack over Baldy Cabin Peak and continue on over to Latir Mesa that way. It's probably easier though to just go down to Hart Lake and back up the trail. Let me know if you need the location of the trailhead.

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Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby Lenteman » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:34 pm

Barry Raven wrote:The Roads of Colorado may be a little help. I'll check it when I get home.

The railroad tracks will be private property. You shouldn't have any problems until the train. There will be some 4 wheel carts in front of and in back of the train probably 5 km away from the train on each side. Hide when they come by.


Thank you Barry. I hiked on the railroad near La Veta this summer and your description is correct.

Barry Raven wrote:If you choose to go over Big Costilla instead of Little Costilla, I do believe that most of that is on Rio Costilla Cattle Association land. You shouldn't have any problems during that time of the year as that is not hunting season. That portion is for hunters starting in September sometime. I believe there is a 4x4 road up onto the massif as well so keep your eyes open to make sure there are no vehicles around.


From the summitpost page on Little Costilla it looks like a beatiful place so I have no problems with going that route. From the top there are two options. There's a dirt road that goes down the Leandro Creek drainage and up an unnamed valley to reach Bernal 4WD road. However this route goes into the Beaubien and Miranda Grant, which is the same as the east slopes in Colorado. Otherwise I can follow a mostly forested (from the Topo! map) ridge north. The ridge is also the Grant Boundary so should keep me out of trouble.

Barry Raven wrote:You best route into the Latir Peaks wilderness is the trail that goes from Forest Rd. 134 near Greenie Peak to the summit of Baldy Mountain. You can then hike down to Hart Lake and back up Latir Mesa. Or you can keep going and bushwhack over Baldy Cabin Peak and continue on over to Latir Mesa that way. It's probably easier though to just go down to Hart Lake and back up the trail. Let me know if you need the location of the trailhead.


Here's the line I drew on the map.
Attachments
Latir Peaks wilderness.JPG
Latir Peaks wilderness.JPG (240.16 KiB) Viewed 1289 times

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Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby MtHurd » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:53 pm

If you want to hike over Venado Peak (nice peak so I don't blame you), then Cabresto Lake would be the best route. If you really want to hike over Elephant Rock, it will be a lot of work. It would be much easier taking the Mallette Canyon Road out of Red River. Obviously it would be on a road instead of the forest but the bushwhacking might be pretty tough in places.

For the Pecos Wilderness, I suggest taking the trail from Jack's Creek up to Pecos Baldy Lake, then Trailrider's Ridge over to South Truchas, then Medio Truchas, North Truchas, Chimayosos Peak, and then the Skyline Trail all the way over to Jicarita Peak. Great alpine route.

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Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby Scott P » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:06 pm

Just curious why you picked the Culebra Range since you are coming all the way over from Belgium? :?:

Colorado (and the rest of the western US) has way better ranges than the Culebra, so it certainly seems like an odd choice. The choice definately has sparked my curiosity.
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Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby MtHurd » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:21 pm

Scott P wrote:Colorado (and the rest of the western US) has way better ranges than the Culebra, so it certainly seems like an odd choice. The choice definately has sparked my curiosity.


His route isn't that bad. He'll probably end up hiking through portions of the Pecos, Wheeler Peak, Columbine Hondo, and Latir Peak wildernesses. He'll also be hiking through the Valley Vidal which is an amazing place. And hiking along the crest of the Culebra Range isn't too shabby.

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Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby Lenteman » Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:32 pm

Scott P wrote:Just curious why you picked the Culebra Range since you are coming all the way over from Belgium? :?:

Colorado (and the rest of the western US) has way better ranges than the Culebra, so it certainly seems like an odd choice. The choice definately has sparked my curiosity.


Good question Scott. The Sangre de Cristo to me feels like a very natural progression from the Pyrenees.
I hiked from Cabo Higuer on the Atlantic to Cap de Creus on the Mediterranean in the summer of 2010. That's a route of 840km with cumulative elevation gain of 39,000 meters. My route as drawn on Topo! is about 750 km and 30,000 meters of elevation gain and another 30 km and 2,000 m to go up and back on the Spanish Peaks. I camped near La Veta last summer and can't pass up on those beautiful mountains if I'm that close. In the Pyrenees I mainly followed the GR 11 which is a well developed trail; in the Sangres a lot of my route will follow ridges because of a lack of North-South trending valleys or trails. Some of it will be bushwacking.

I know the Sangres from when I camped at Great Sand Dunes in 2002 and saw a dry lightning storm. I was 13 at the time. So I guess one very important reason I chose the Sangres is because I knew about them.

To my knowledge nobody has attempted to hike the length of this mountain range: I feel this needs to be rectified.

There is a striking similarity between peakbaggers and long distance hikers: neither of us can stop and we both have big long term projects. You might want to summit all Colorado 13ers; I hope to eventually hike the length of the Rocky Mountains. The Sangre de Cristo are the southernmost range of the Rocky Mountains and therefore as good a place to start as any.

Barry Raven wrote:If you want to hike over Venado Peak (nice peak so I don't blame you), then Cabresto Lake would be the best route. If you really want to hike over Elephant Rock, it will be a lot of work. It would be much easier taking the Mallette Canyon Road out of Red River. Obviously it would be on a road instead of the forest but the bushwhacking might be pretty tough in places.


The 1/25,000 map on the Topo! NM dvd indicates a trail on Elephant Rock. The map is current as of 1995. Do you know this mountain? I am trying to avoid roadwalking as much as possible.

Barry Raven wrote:For the Pecos Wilderness, I suggest taking the trail from Jack's Creek up to Pecos Baldy Lake, then Trailrider's Ridge over to South Truchas, then Medio Truchas, North Truchas, Chimayosos Peak, and then the Skyline Trail all the way over to Jicarita Peak. Great alpine route.


You have a knack Barry! From Pecos Baldy Lake onwards that is spot on the route I drew except instead of summitting North Truchas I drop down to camp at the lakes. From Jicarita I follow Agua Piedra Creek to the Tres Ritos resort where I imagine I will pick up a food package. I don't have Jack's creek as my approach to Pecos Baldy Lake however. If you give me your e-mail address I can send you my Topo! track.

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Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby SteveBonowski » Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:01 pm

Phone number for Cielo Vista Ranch at their office near Dallas, TX is 254-897-7872. I don't have an e-mail for Bobby Hill. But you can try CFI (www.14ers.org).

Whatever you do, don 't get caught on the east side of Culebra. Access has been denied for climbing on that ranch for over 30 years and you may get prosecuted for malicious trespass if you are caught on the property.

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Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby Jim Davies » Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:39 pm

Lenteman wrote:To my knowledge nobody has attempted to hike the length of this mountain range: I feel this needs to be rectified.

The CMC "Guide To The Colorado Mountains" mentions that a group of three traversed from Poncha Pass to Music Pass over nine days in 1961. That might be the closest to a full traverse. Good luck! It sounds like a great project.
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Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby Kiefer » Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:42 pm

Lenteman,
For obvious reasons, if you want, I can call Ken up and ask him if it'd be ok to for you to contact him regarding the Culebra Range.
Otherwise, your only bet is to join 14erWorld (a pay site), initiate a membership and contact him that way.
He doesn't post to the forums at Listsofjohn. He stays rather private.
I can think of two others with as much knowledge as Ken but they're even harder to get a hold of.

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Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby Lenteman » Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:52 am

Jim Davies wrote:The CMC "Guide To The Colorado Mountains" mentions that a group of three traversed from Poncha Pass to Music Pass over nine days in 1961. That might be the closest to a full traverse. Good luck! It sounds like a great project.


I read those pages on google books, it appears No Agua Peak got its name during that traverse. I tried and failed to find further information about their route.

Kiefer wrote:Lenteman,
For obvious reasons, if you want, I can call Ken up and ask him if it'd be ok to for you to contact him regarding the Culebra Range.
Otherwise, your only bet is to join 14erWorld (a pay site), initiate a membership and contact him that way.
He doesn't post to the forums at Listsofjohn. He stays rather private.
I can think of two others with as much knowledge as Ken but they're even harder to get a hold of.


Thanks for the offer. I made myself a member of LoJ yesterday and sent him an e-mail, we'll know after the weekend...


PS I found this web page about Elephant Rock: http://www.sangres.com/newmexico/national-forests/carson/trails/elephantrocktrail.htm

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Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby Mtnsurveyor » Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:50 pm

Hmmmmm...... I have been thinking about this for a long while. A Professional land Surveyor (PLS) and persons under direct supervision of a PLS can access any property in Colorado with proper notice. CRS 515-bla-bla, I keep a copy in my truck for my favorite Sheriff's in Lake County.(not to mention names)

Someone pay $1 to determine the exact height of Culebra in Meters of course, HAHA
and send the greedy land owners a notice that we intend on surveying their mountain. HAHA
well..... Can't do that, but $200 fee now, it's too much. :evil:
Last edited by Mtnsurveyor on Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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