Kevin Hayne Accident

Threads related to Colorado mountaineering accidents but please keep it civil and respectful. Friends and relatives of fallen climbers will be reading these posts.
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its_not_a_tuba
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Re: Kevin Hayne Accident

Post by its_not_a_tuba »

elchivoloco wrote:
shredthegnar10 wrote:Alpinista wrote:
Get advanced first aid training. 24 hours of Wilderness First Aid *at a minimum*. Much much better to spend the 10 days at a Wilderness First Responder class. (it seems unlikely this would have made a difference in the current incident, but it's very valuable information and skill to have in general).
If you want to learn all about the Gamov bag or the pharmacotheraputics of dexamethasone, that's laudable. But what is wilderness first aid, really? It's going down, out of the wilderness and to a hospital. Surgeons, nurses, and paramedics in the wilderness are nice, but are pretty useless without operating rooms, hospitals, and ambulances. There are an abundance of tricks and techniques the layperson can learn and use to treat inconsequential, comfort type, wilderness injuries and illnesses, but for the big time, life-threatening stuff the cirriculum is pretty short. 1) Protect the victim from immediate further harm. (dig them out of the snow, pluck them from the river, or pry them from the bears mouth) 2) Careful with the neck 3) Stop serious bleeding (you don't need bandages or guaze for this, get creative. if in doubt, make it tighter) 4) The recovery position (if they're unconscious, or might be soon, lay them on their side while observing #2)

That's it, really. Oh yeah, and get them to a hospital.
Go take a class and come back and re-read your post. You'll get a good laugh.

For certain types of wilderness emergencies there is a tremendous amount of life saving that can be done in the field. Take hypothermia for example - there is much more to it than just warming the victim up. Do the right things and you can save a life, do the wrong things and you can kill someone. Furthermore WFA teaches students a great deal of how to diagnose injuries so they can relay information to the rescue teams so that when professional help does arrive they will have the necessary equipment with them.
"Wilderness settles peace on the soul because it needs no help. It is beyond human contrivance." -- E.O. Wilson
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FCSquid
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Re: Kevin Hayne Accident

Post by FCSquid »

tmathews wrote:
FCSquid wrote:We felt the same way you did about the Hourglass and chose the Southwest ridge with a South LIttle Bear -> Little Bear summit traverse. It was exposed, loose, downright terrifying in spots, but it did keep us out of that gully. There were two climbers descending the gully while we were on the summit ridge - I believe cleaning up the gully from the accident. They were in the Hourglass the entire time we were above them and still there while we were on the way down the ridge. We were incredibly nervous just being above those guys with all the loose rock near the summit and the summit notch, and I'm just glad that the only rocks we knocked loose went down the Blanca Basin side, and not to the west.
Actually, I think they were just climbing, not cleaning up anything. I got an email from Travis saying that they contacted him because they found Kevin's ice axe.
Boy, oh boy, they were in the Hourglass forever. I get nervous just looking at the gulley - those guys must've spent between 60-90 minutes at the top and in the choke of the Hourglass. Maybe they never knew we were overhead ...
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Re: Kevin Hayne Accident

Post by Greenspoon »

I have been up to this point a "looker" on this site for over a year. While I have much experience in the great outdoors hiking and some experience rock climbing I am fairly new to the particular goal of climbing 14ers.

This is also the first time I have felt the need to add my .02. I have followed all of the related threads to this accident and my heart truly goes out to those who knew Kevin Hayne and especially Travis. Kevin seems like he was exuberant and open hearted, two things that everyone could use more of for sure.

* Travis- don't know if you are still following any of the threads, but I am incredibly impressed with how you have opened yourself and embraced this whole experience. I truly hope it expedites your healing process. I also truly hope you are not second guessing anything you did that day. With hind sight everything is 20/20, but unfortunately we cannot live our lives that way.

* In regards to a plaque. Seems like this subject has been moved to a back burner and I don't know if a dedicated thread would be appropriate. Travis had mentioned that he would be open to points of view in regard to the plaque so I am posting mine. I strongly am opposed to any kind of dedicated plaque at the hourglass for fallen climbers. Please consider these reasons for not placing a plaque.
1. As brought up by other posters, if each of the fallen climbers on LB had posted a plaque there would be 15+ plaques already up there, and it seems like this mountain claims a life every other year and sometimes every year. If this were practiced into the future by the time your children climbed LB there would be 30-40 plaques.
2. Personally as a climber, I do not want to be reminded that someone lost their life right at the most difficult point of a climb. I want to be free of distracting thoughts and focused completely at the task at hand, with no doubt of my actions and also want to be able to celebrate and be joyful when/if the summit is achieved. Recognizing a fallen climber should not distract or take away from the personal satisfaction of a summit. Do not take this as a blanket statement that fallen climbers should not be recognized. Maybe the community could be tapped for alternate places for recognizing this. Alternately prayer flags could be placed at the summit.
3. The dying wish dilema. I understand that this is a tricky one as you two spoke of this on your hike up. I think it is very easy and alluring to want such things at ones passing. But a couple things do need to be considered about the request. Does it impact other people? Is this something that if REALLY thought about Kevin would want? You could put this into the context of all you have dealt with from this accident and perhaps you have changed your mind about wanting a plaque if you should one day fall in the mountains, another context is that when I was 18 I was ADAMANT about not donating organs if I passed. Again, with a bit of hindsight and life experience I would consider this a terrible waste and absolutely want to donate every piece of me if it can be used.

Anyway, my post is much longer than anticipated already. These are my thoughts on the subject and I say this in the context of someone who has already summited LB and understands the dangers and complexities of that climb.
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Re: Kevin Hayne Accident

Post by cwesley73 »

First, my most heartfelt condolences to Travis, Kevin's family, and all of his friends.

I joined this community in 2007, and as one of the very inexperienced members of this site I can tell you that all of the information here is very helpful. This does include the information that is tough to relay as well as tough to receive. My son and I have used this site a number of times when deciding what, when, and where we will climb when going to Colorado. I do appreciate the information that Travis has provided even though I know it has to be very difficult to do so. I use information like this not to judge the people involved but to make better decisions about future climbs and trips. I read almost every thread on this site weekly. I try to take in as much information as possible for future reference whether it was a bad experience or a successful summit. If I ever find myself in a sticky situation I pray I will remember something I have heard or read. We never know what the future holds, but for someone to think that they cannot learn from others' experiences is to think you know everything and have no room to grow.

I appreciate everyone's experiences and opinions on this forum. Most of you will never know how something you have said may have made for a better experience for my son and I in the mountains. Thank you Bill M. for creating this site as it is the best place to find information about climbing in Colorado. Thank you Travis for be open and willing to share this information. I hope I never find myself in this type of situation, but if I do, I hope that what I have read here will help me to make the safest decisions.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure." Marianne Williamson
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elchivoloco
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Re: Kevin Hayne Accident

Post by elchivoloco »

Kevo wrote:Sorry, but I have to disagree here. While I agree with your 4 points above as being the tenets of wilderness medicine that anyone can understand without taking a coure, there is a bit more technical knowledge that can be gained and more importantly, training/education in wilderness medicine can help you to-

1- identify issues that you might otherwise look past before they become more serious
I agree with you in the above respect. I had overlooked diagnostics when I threw together the four tennants. Being able to accurately diagnose potential physical and wellness issues is important, and is analogous too accurately assessing terrain and weather conditions. However when it comes to the treatment of injuries and illness in the wilderness I insist that simple is superior. Spending a week or so learning wildrness first aid fundamentals will make you feel competent, but you probably really aren't. Not in a week. Additionally, complex first aid skills, like reducing a fracture, for instance, are perishable. Maybe you did know what you were doing right after the course. Will you in a month, a year... I used to work in the ER that saw the casualties evacuated off Rainier (we had the big landing pad). Most were well taken care of, sometimes though, "first aid" was unhelpful or even made the problem worse. That's not even layperson first aid we're talking about, that's climbing guide first aid that the victim would have been better off without.

When your treatment algorithm gets complex it's easy to miss the small stuff, but it's the small stuff that is really the most important. First do no harm, then execute the simple stuff really well, that is what I am saying. Leave the rest to experts with running water, and electricity, and a hospital full of equipment.
The atmosphere is not a perfume, it has no taste of distillation, it is odorless. It is in my mouth forever, I am in love with it. I will go to the bank by the wood and become undisguised and naked, I am mad for it to be in contact with me. -Walt Whitman
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