Lightning Strike on Mt Bierstadt
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- 3rdGenNative
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Re: Lightning strike
This has been an interesting discussion to watch. A year or two ago there was a sizeable conversation regarding if hiking gear (hiking poles, metal pack frames, etc.) would increase one's likelihood of being struck. Like running around frantically when a storm is approaching, we want to do everything we can to shed the risk. The fact is, a person, or even a group of people, is so miniscule compared to the cloud-filled space above that being struck is more a matter of topography and timing than what you carry in/on your pack.
"There is more in us than we know. If we can be made to see it, perhaps, for the rest of our lives, we will never again settle for less."
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"Reading about nature is fine, but if a person walks in the woods and listens carefully, he can learn more than what is in books, for they speak with the voice of God." George Washington Carver
Kurt Hahn-Founder of Outward Bound
"Reading about nature is fine, but if a person walks in the woods and listens carefully, he can learn more than what is in books, for they speak with the voice of God." George Washington Carver
- jdorje
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Re: Lightning strike
Hm the point of a lightning rod isn't to make lightning more likely to hit your house (I hope!), it's to channel lightning that does hit your house into the metal rod. When you say they "don't work", are you simply saying the house is too conductive and the lightning may hit at the far end of the roof and go down the gutter instead of ever reaching the rod 20 feet away?
"I don't think about the past, and the future is a mystery. Only the present matters."
- mtree
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Re: Lightning strike
There's just to scientific research to support the claim they actually work. They're not supposed to attract lightning!jdorje wrote:Hm the point of a lightning rod isn't to make lightning more likely to hit your house (I hope!), it's to channel lightning that does hit your house into the metal rod. When you say they "don't work", are you simply saying the house is too conductive and the lightning may hit at the far end of the roof and go down the gutter instead of ever reaching the rod 20 feet away?
My current house sits in a meadow on some acreage. Last year a lightning strike hit the ground about 30 feet from the house! I witnessed it. It did not hit the house. It did not hit the telephone pole just 20 feet away. It did not hit any of a few tall trees nearby. It hit the ground. However, the discharge was powerful enough to fry a number of electronics within the house. That sucked.
That said, scissors cuts paper, paper covers rock, rock crushes lizard, lizard poisons Spock, Spock smashes scissors, scissors decapitates lizard, lizard eats paper, paper disproves Spock, Spock vaporizes rock, and as it always has, rock crushes scissors. I think that about sums it up.
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- Jeff Valliere
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Re: Lightning strike
Really sad to hear about the dog, but glad to hear it was not worse though for the people involved.
The only predictable thing that I have learned about lightning over the years is that it is unpredictable.
To address the previously mentioned "be off the summit by noon" theory, I personally do not subscribe to that at all and (like many here) quickly learned that it is a very general suggestion. I have been stormed off peaks as early as 8 or 9am and conversely have enjoyed bluebird summits in late afternoon. Over time, I have learned how to read the signs as to storm development reasonably well, but even still, have had my fair share of surprises, miscalculations and close calls. I have also bailed prematurely, get far enough down the mountain and frustratingly realize that the storm dissipated or went a different direction. Hindsight is 20/20. If you climb peaks often, you will encounter these scenarios and more.
(Stating the obvious here), but in general, I see more experienced climbers being much more leery of developing storms and lightning, it just makes sense. On the other end of the spectrum though, I am often astounded when I am running off a peak quickly to get back to the car before a storm hits and I see people still going up, moving slow, with very little if any concern. I imagine that they are taking the noon time suggestion a bit too literal ("hey, it is only 10:30am"), or they are simply unaware of the potential severity and danger. Statistically, I guess the risk is not that high, given the amount of people each summer who hike through severe storms above treeline vs. those who are struck/injured/killed, but in my opinion, those times I have been in the thick of it, it is of no consolation to weigh those odds, you feel certain that you are going to be one of those unlucky few. If you have experienced the sensation akin to being swarmed by bees, feeling electricity in each step and had everything metal on you arcing and sparking, you know what I mean.
And then, there is the odd story like this which really makes lightning seems even more unpredictable: (http://www.longs2pikes.com/storm.html)
"Just prior to 1 pm on July 25, 2000, an 18 year old male was killed by a cloud to ground lighting flash on top of Pikes Peak, Colorado (elevation 14,110 feet). He was standing in a boulder field very near the top of the mountain (approximately 33 meters [100 feet] from the top). He was the tallest object in a very exposed area. He was with two other friends on the mountain. They were each spaced about 10 meters [30 feet] apart. The one friend closest to the teen who was struck by the flash was thrown to the ground but not injured. The other was still standing after the flash. No thunder was heard prior to this deadly flash. Data collected from the National Lightning Data Network . . . indicated only 1 flash occurred on top of Pikes Peak. It occurred at exactly 12:56:50 MDT. A review of lightning data between 12:00 MDT and 1:00 MDT indicated no other flashes occurred within 60 nautical miles of Pikes Peak. Seven other cloud to ground flashes did [occur] between 1:00 MDT and 2:00 MDT, but occurred over 6 miles to the south."
The only predictable thing that I have learned about lightning over the years is that it is unpredictable.
To address the previously mentioned "be off the summit by noon" theory, I personally do not subscribe to that at all and (like many here) quickly learned that it is a very general suggestion. I have been stormed off peaks as early as 8 or 9am and conversely have enjoyed bluebird summits in late afternoon. Over time, I have learned how to read the signs as to storm development reasonably well, but even still, have had my fair share of surprises, miscalculations and close calls. I have also bailed prematurely, get far enough down the mountain and frustratingly realize that the storm dissipated or went a different direction. Hindsight is 20/20. If you climb peaks often, you will encounter these scenarios and more.
(Stating the obvious here), but in general, I see more experienced climbers being much more leery of developing storms and lightning, it just makes sense. On the other end of the spectrum though, I am often astounded when I am running off a peak quickly to get back to the car before a storm hits and I see people still going up, moving slow, with very little if any concern. I imagine that they are taking the noon time suggestion a bit too literal ("hey, it is only 10:30am"), or they are simply unaware of the potential severity and danger. Statistically, I guess the risk is not that high, given the amount of people each summer who hike through severe storms above treeline vs. those who are struck/injured/killed, but in my opinion, those times I have been in the thick of it, it is of no consolation to weigh those odds, you feel certain that you are going to be one of those unlucky few. If you have experienced the sensation akin to being swarmed by bees, feeling electricity in each step and had everything metal on you arcing and sparking, you know what I mean.
And then, there is the odd story like this which really makes lightning seems even more unpredictable: (http://www.longs2pikes.com/storm.html)
"Just prior to 1 pm on July 25, 2000, an 18 year old male was killed by a cloud to ground lighting flash on top of Pikes Peak, Colorado (elevation 14,110 feet). He was standing in a boulder field very near the top of the mountain (approximately 33 meters [100 feet] from the top). He was the tallest object in a very exposed area. He was with two other friends on the mountain. They were each spaced about 10 meters [30 feet] apart. The one friend closest to the teen who was struck by the flash was thrown to the ground but not injured. The other was still standing after the flash. No thunder was heard prior to this deadly flash. Data collected from the National Lightning Data Network . . . indicated only 1 flash occurred on top of Pikes Peak. It occurred at exactly 12:56:50 MDT. A review of lightning data between 12:00 MDT and 1:00 MDT indicated no other flashes occurred within 60 nautical miles of Pikes Peak. Seven other cloud to ground flashes did [occur] between 1:00 MDT and 2:00 MDT, but occurred over 6 miles to the south."
Last edited by Jeff Valliere on Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Lightning strike
^^^^
Well said, Jeff.
"The only predictable thing that I have learned about lightning over the years is that it is unpredictable."
Well said, Jeff.
"The only predictable thing that I have learned about lightning over the years is that it is unpredictable."
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the women 'round here start looking good"
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Re: Lightning strike
Since it seems that a person would be much more likely to be impacted by a ground current than a direct hit, perhaps Roach's advice is worth quoting:
"Wet ropes are good conductors" (or as someone said earlier, if you have a rope on, get it off)
"Snow is not a good conductor" (in other words, stand on snow if there is any around)
"Crouch on boot soles, ideally on dry insulating material such as moss or grass. Dirt is better than rock."
--Colorado's 14ers, Roach, viii
Sean Nunn
Raytown, MO
"Wet ropes are good conductors" (or as someone said earlier, if you have a rope on, get it off)
"Snow is not a good conductor" (in other words, stand on snow if there is any around)
"Crouch on boot soles, ideally on dry insulating material such as moss or grass. Dirt is better than rock."
--Colorado's 14ers, Roach, viii
Sean Nunn
Raytown, MO
"Thy righteousness is like the great mountains."
Psalm 36:6
Psalm 36:6
- SkaredShtles
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Re: Lightning strike
Speaking of lightning... the foothills are getting positively POUNDED right now.
http://www.lightningmaps.org/realtime" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.lightningmaps.org/realtime" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- highpilgrim
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Re: Lightning strike
The fact that statistically speaking you're not likely to get struck by lightning is irrelevant. Ask anyone who's been "lit up" by a big static charge and I think you'll find that being in the Supreme Being's crosshairs is a position that most won't want to repeat. It's miserable feeling the back of your head stinging and your trekking poles audibly humming, 3000 feet or so from safety.
And suggesting that only 2 deaths from strikes have occurred in the last 30 years is BS. There were two deaths last year alone in RMNP. And luck counts; that big group on Bierstadt could have resulted in more fatalities.
Most importantly, less than 20% of lightning strikes result in a fatality. But a high percentage of those who survive are saddled with lifelong debility, and many never regain themselves as the person they believe themselves to be. So, don't worry about getting struck; you won't be killed outright. You can live marginally for the rest of your life.
Learn to watch the weather. Alpine starts. Don't be afraid to turn around. The mountain will be there tomorrow.
And suggesting that only 2 deaths from strikes have occurred in the last 30 years is BS. There were two deaths last year alone in RMNP. And luck counts; that big group on Bierstadt could have resulted in more fatalities.
Most importantly, less than 20% of lightning strikes result in a fatality. But a high percentage of those who survive are saddled with lifelong debility, and many never regain themselves as the person they believe themselves to be. So, don't worry about getting struck; you won't be killed outright. You can live marginally for the rest of your life.
Learn to watch the weather. Alpine starts. Don't be afraid to turn around. The mountain will be there tomorrow.
Call on God, but row away from the rocks.
Hunter S Thompson
Walk away from the droning and leave the hive behind.
Dick Derkase
Hunter S Thompson
Walk away from the droning and leave the hive behind.
Dick Derkase
- BillMiddlebrook
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Re: Lightning strike
True. My grandfather was hit by lightning on his farm and lived the rest of his life with immobility on his entire left side and some brain damage. 30 years of being 1/2 paralyzed.highpilgrim wrote:But a high percentage of those who survive are saddled with lifelong debility
"When I go out, I become more alive. I just love skiing. The gravitational pull. When you ski steep terrain... you can almost get a feeling of flying." -Doug Coombs
- GregB
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Re: Lightning strike
Praying for the folks who got struck! My dad was a NOAA meteorologist, so I grew up being quite familiar with the dangers and craziness of weather; yes, some folks who were hit will likely have a very challenging road to recovery. My prayers are with them and their families.SkaredShtles wrote:Speaking of lightning... the foothills are getting positively POUNDED right now.
http://www.lightningmaps.org/realtime" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And yes, lots of lightning today, too. One such lightning bolt hit the home of some friends of ours today and started an attic fire. Thankfully no one was injured, and the fire was quickly put out with no water damage to the house.
Regarding lightning countermeasures, the "crouch", lightning rods, etc.: I think these all have some validity and are debate- and research-worthy topics, but lightning just does strange things sometimes; it is not entirely well understood scientifically. When out in any exposed area, countermeasures are probably only a matter of fine-tuning the odds....
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Re: Lightning strike
This book is worth the read: "Shattered Air" by Bob Madgic.
http://www.amazon.com/Shattered-Air-Acc ... ttered+air" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.amazon.com/Shattered-Air-Acc ... ttered+air" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Lightning strike
I know this is getting a bit far afield of lightning on a peak, but someone mentioned lightning rods, and I know Coors Field uses some sort of lightning rod thing, a search led me to this which is pretty cool sounding -
http://www.theprotectionsource.com/Prev ... w/how.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.theprotectionsource.com/Prev ... w/how.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pwahl/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;