Threads related to Colorado mountaineering accidents but please keep it civil and respectful. Friends and relatives of fallen climbers will be reading these posts.
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Please be respectful when posting - family and friends of fallen climbers might be reading this forum.
alpha wrote:I think there is an important point here that no one has touched on.
Do NOT continue upward ("self rescue" or otherwise) if people have HAPE or HACE.
If members of the party were suffering that bad, everyone is lucky that no one died as the group continued on to the submit.
This should be the teachable moment for everyone. Glad it worked out okay for the soldiers on this occasion.
I would agree with ypu, but where are you going to bail, halfway up Kieners? The raps on the Diamond?
Why they didn't just rap off Cables from the summit... no idea. It's 20 minutes to hike to it, two raps and you're back on hiking territory.
alpha wrote:I think there is an important point here that no one has touched on.
Do NOT continue upward ("self rescue" or otherwise) if people have HAPE or HACE.
If members of the party were suffering that bad, everyone is lucky that no one died as the group continued on to the submit.
This should be the teachable moment for everyone. Glad it worked out okay for the soldiers on this occasion.
I would agree with ypu, but where are you going to bail, halfway up Kieners? The raps on the Diamond?
Why they didn't just rap off Cables from the summit... no idea. It's 20 minutes to hike to it, two raps and you're back on hiking territory.
What he said.
" The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war"
Recon 1st inf. Div.
spiderman wrote:Have you ever seen a long line of tourist buses in BLM land? Have you ever seen a row of souvenir shops in a NF? Have you noticed that our most beautiful locations don't have a paved sidewalk, along with plaques labeling everything you go past? The National Park system concentrates the visitors into a narrow area that rapidly loses most of its natural/pristine charm. Many American and international tourists love the NPS system. The 307 million visitors each year is a blessing for the economies around the parks, but doesn't do much good for the natural wonders.
I personally am glad that they floc to those locations instead of the BLM/NF/Wilderness areas that are my personal preference. I thought that Wetterhorn was 10x the beauty of Longs primarily because of the solitude. I am willing to sacrifice three of our beloved 14ers in order to save a bit of quiet for the rest of the peaks. Adding in a group of 10 special forces guys on Longs has minimal impact to other climbers' experience as having training sessions on peaks like McDonald, Snowshoe, Crazy, or other remote Montana mountains (not that I would soldiers when they do decide to head off on hikes/training into the most remote wilderness areas).
I honestly thought you might know something about BLM/NFS/NPS land management that I don't, but this comment that entirely misses the conversations proves that wrong. You're opinion on how you're glad people visit the national parks instead of BLM/NFS is irrelevant. Preserving the natural environment is of paramount concern in NPS. Ever wonder why ranching is allowed on BLM? Logging in NFS? You're entirely off base, and why I too am perfectly happy that people concentrate in the visitor centers are national parks so that we can have the real backcountry to ourselves as a wilderness experience on BLM/NFS lands--and just as magnificent nature as many national parks--our personal tastes don't have anything to do with this argument. Military exercises have no place in a national park, just like hunting, logging, ATVing, raching, etc. Those belong in the other abundant federal land.
spiderman wrote:Military exercises have no place in a national park, just like hunting, logging, ATVing, raching, etc. Those belong in the other abundant federal land.
This is basically just a group of guys going to climb Kieners, and they happened to need rescuing. Hardly an involved military exercise, and not really any different from a group of civilians in the same situation. Should people in the military not be allowed to go climb stuff occasionally? Or is the problem that they might be getting paid to do it?
spiderman wrote:Military exercises have no place in a national park, just like hunting, logging, ATVing, raching, etc. Those belong in the other abundant federal land.
This is basically just a group of guys going to climb Kieners, and they happened to need rescuing. Hardly an involved military exercise, and not really any different from a group of civilians in the same situation. Should people in the military not be allowed to go climb stuff occasionally? Or is the problem that they might be getting paid to do it?
Of course off-duty service members should be allowed in the national park and allowed to climb, and of course official, organized military exercises should not happen on protected public land. This land has a very narrowly defined purpose in the law, and you better believe I respect the rules and the land when I visit, just as I expect them to.
Of course off-duty service members should be allowed in the national park and allowed to climb, and of course official, organized military exercises should not happen on protected public land. This land has a very narrowly defined purpose in the law, and you better believe I respect the rules and the land when I visit, just as I expect them to.
Permit and special use application with 30 days notice is all that is required for a military unit to train in a national park.