OPEN! was: Lily/Lindsey Road "Closed" (photos)

[TallGrass]

I crossed two mudslides across the road on July 2 to get to the Lily Lake TH most often used for Lindsey. After four days in the Sangres, I left the South Lake Zapata TH (July 5th) to get back to my vehicle and found the road blocked by this. More photos coming...

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Taken from the "diversion road" created so folks could get out I guess. There were three other vehicles at the trailhead. All looked like 4WD, and they'll need it because there are 6"+ mud ruts and more as the DR is degrading quickly at points.

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[TallGrass]

... holed up in Westcliff right now going through photos. Got back to TH about 5:20pm. Took these on my bike riding out.

Note the prior landslide to the right of the current one. MUCH bigger slide. Taken from the Diversion Road.

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The D.R. is "good" at some places, basically driving across grass, but the road has no foundation so it's going south quickly. Here you can see since the road runs alongside the river it has become a tributary.

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[TallGrass]

This is one of the easier sections to drive, but note the water coming in from the left and coming down the right wheel track...

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... which has already cut a channel to the river a few feet away.

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Sure, this doesn't look bad, but I wasn't about to stop in one of the many deep mud ruts on the bike to snap a photo. Momentum is your friend!

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[TallGrass]

Near the end, it's pretty nice. Guessing that's the dozer that clear the previous slides (Nat talked about those in Andrew Hamilton's thread).

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"Road Closed" signage

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Many of you might recognize the large puddle.

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Leaving the TH, there's a barricade about two miles down diverting you right down a steep (and now very muddy) hill. Sometimes there's grass between the tracks (good news for bikes) but often the whole thing is chewed up muck, and the monsoon rains and storms don't help. This diversion road simply doesn't have the bed nor soil consistency to hold up to repeated use. Please make other plans and do NOT use this road until USFS or whoever gives the green light. Road could be down for quite a while. And there's more...

[TallGrass]

After the ranches, the road is usually good, but the side here has fallen into to the river. The posts were bobbing up and down in the river held aloft by the tension in the wires of the remaining ones.

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"How tough is the Lily Lake Road?" You Chevy guys might like this.

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So here's the problem... if this road is susceptible to repeated mud and hill slides if up high, and a mucky mess if down lower (private property?), is there any real solution to this? Seems every time I go there they have road issues. Just glad I was able to make it out; would've been a long walk for help had I got stuck.

Edit: Any reason why when repairing the road they can't use some of the sandy mud and gravel to fill in the myriad of puddles like the one in front of the dozer? Wouldn't take much for a 4x4 pickup with a bedload of fill to just drive down, stop just after crossing, and push some off the tailgate into the puddles which are perfect mosquito breeding grounds.

[Monster5]

So here's the problem... if this road is susceptible to repeated mud and hill slides if up high, and a mucky mess if down lower (private property?), is there any real solution to this?

Stabilizing the slides would be very costly (low single digit millions) and they will likely only do so if the landslides threaten water rights and stabilization is more cost effective than a flexible pipe system or rerouting. In lieu of an actual geotechnical investigation, I have a feeling simple drain pipes alone will not work in this particular application (particular with blue collar installation methods) and with that material. If the terrain allows access above the slides, they do have some options for diverting water and limiting infiltration. Stabilization will likely require earthworks and buttressing/tiebacks, which might trigger other failures nearby.

The only viable and cost-effective fix for the road is to reroute it (mitigation by avoidance). The likely $5K/event fix they will do instead is to simply excavate the material as it fails and keep re-grading the road until the slide reaches equilibrium, which is unlikely. This generally creates a bigger mess as the landslide extents/scarps propagate upslope and laterally. Still, pretty cheap and it "works." Until the next rainstorm. This also creates lawsuit potential.

Edit: Any reason why when repairing the road they can't use some of the sandy mud and gravel to fill in the myriad of puddles like the one in front of the dozer? Wouldn't take much for a 4x4 pickup with a bedload of fill to just drive down, stop just after crossing, and push some off the tailgate into the puddles

Sure. But they'll want to dry it dry out a bit first, provide compaction, and see if they can install proper drainage/grading to keep it from happening again.

[mtree]

I was on this road last summer in late August. Not surprised. I passed a slide area that was only partially onto the road and some areas where the river was chewing away. Some deep mud holes, too. A 4WD wasn't necessary, but high clearance was if you wanted to get to the upper parking area. I watched a couple of Subarus scrape their way up. And evidence of someone who lost their oilpan. Rough road. I'd update the 14er route description to strongly recommend high clearance and 4WD.

You were lucky. At least you got out!

[TallGrass]

The likely $5K/event fix they will do instead is to simply excavate the material as it fails and keep re-grading the road until the slide reaches equilibrium, which is unlikely. This generally creates a bigger mess as the landslide extents/scarps propagate upslope and laterally. Still, pretty cheap and it "works." Until the next rainstorm. This also creates lawsuit potential.

Yeah, the "sweeping a dirt floor" approach.

"Any reason why when repairing the road they can't use some of the sandy mud and gravel to fill in the myriad of puddles like the one in front of the dozer?" Sure. But they'll want to dry it dry out a bit first, provide compaction, and see if they can install proper drainage/grading to keep it from happening again.

Those puddles have been there for years, are compacted, etc. Being a single-track vehicle, I remember the best way to navigate each. Many span the entire width of the road and I've never seen them dry out. Fill them and it'll displace the water letting it continue downhill. Hell, CFI does a better job maintaining trail. Just seems a no-brainer to me.

I was on this road last summer in late August. ... You were lucky. At least you got out!

I was when I saw the barricade diverting down a grassy hill with trees on either side and muddy, rutted, wet 4x4-tire tracks. With street tires, good recipe to lowside, and even if you don't hit anything, picking a loaded motorcycle up in slick mud is a major PITA. Scouted ahead, saw slide, and knew had no other option. Luckily, in some places I could ride between the wheel tracks where there was still grass or stuff for better traction. Yes, very happy to see the final stretch knowing I could make it out.

[Monster5]

Those puddles have been there for years, are compacted, etc. Being a single-track vehicle, I remember the best way to navigate each. Many span the entire width of the road and I've never seen them dry out.

The fill material will require compaction in lifts and an attempt at optimum moisture content, not the existing road. This assumes the fill has some cohesives as well as sand/gravel. They cannot simply dump material in the holes and call it good. Else each passing vehicle will create a depression and carry off fill. Grading and drainage are to get water off the road as soon as possible instead of ponding and losing material to tires, displacement and overtopping. However, compaction, beyond tracking over the filled pothole with a dozer a couple times, is unlikely and the potholes will probably form again.

[TallGrass]

Per Huerfano County Board of County Commissioners as of 6-1-2016:

"Alternate routes to access Upper Huerfano basin
The US Forest Service is currently recommending visitors use alternate routes to access the upper Huerfano basin, Lily Lake, and the 14ers.

* Mosca Pass Road 583 summit, then traversing south near Carbonate Peak to the basin

* Holbrook Gulch Road # 975 to Lake Como from the Rio Grande NF side

* South Zapata Creek Trailhead in the Zapata Falls Recreation Area (south of Sand Dunes N.P.)

* Cascade Creek Trail #1303 from the Huerfano State Wildlife Area ,to the Huerfano Trail # 1307 which ends on FSR 580 above the slide.

All routes listed require back county skills and preparedness. The US Forest Service has not published a map of these routes, instead they ask to reference the National Geographic Sangre de Cristo map for detailed route planning."
Source: http://huerfano.us/cr580information.php

An earlier post from the Huerfano County BoCC said work on the road might begin in May 2016. It's possible that said road work may interfere with access -- heavy machinery + hiking pedestrians = bad mix.

Note about the South Zapata Lake TH, shortly after you enter Wilderness you see a rock pile with an aspen on your left with "North Fork Trail" carved into it. You can follow this to a fork where instead of taking the descending leg right, stay left and follow the ridge, cairns, tape, and broken trail to California Peak, a Centennial. It's mostly Class 1, up to Class 2+ in some spots. Some have run the ridge from there south to other 13ers, then down the slopes to Lily Lake(s, there's an upper and lower) which has a trail from there down to the river. No idea about how much snow is up there.

Lindsey can also be accessed via Gash Ridge off Blanca toward "Huerfanito" (some Class 5 downclimbing), or taking the ridge from Blanca toward Hamilton, then Class 4 ridge down to Winchell Lakes to the lowest point on Gash Ridge. Stay north of the gendarmes to get to the grassy high saddle with the arm coming off Huefanito, transition to the south and scramble up. Traverse the scree-side of Huerfanito and make your way to the standard Lindsey route (multiple options).

[TallGrass]

Made some calls and found out work on the "new" road to go around the slide that was slated to start in May (per Huerfano County) has yet to start. Things have gotten pushed back as far as August in the past until conditions were suitable. When it dries up enough to be nice for hiking (and cycling?), it might also be good for construction crews (i.e. conflict).

TLDR: If trying for Lindsey this season, don't be surprised if conditions (man-made or not) throw a wrench in the works.

[Sean Nunn]

Thanks for the information. We were thinking about climbing Lindsey this year but I think we will wait until road conditions are more favorable.