Car accident - Stevens Gulch Road - 9/17

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AyeYo
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Re: Car accident - Stevens Gulch Road - 9/17

Post by AyeYo »

KansanClimber wrote:It wouldn't be impossible for a brake line to have been cut, broken, corroded, or chewed through. A porcupine could have done it, or like someone else said maybe salt corrosion. Those lines have some pressure in them, so a small leak can make everything useless.
This.

You'd be amazed how exposed the brake line routing is on many vehicles. Put a hole in a line and your brakes are gone the first time you hit the pedal. People with no off-road driving experience have a strong tendency to aim to put large rocks under the middle of the vehicle out of some misguided need to protect the tires. Of course, this puts brake lines, fuel lines, oil pans, drivelines, etc. in danger. While I do agree that "I lost my brakes" is a pretty easy excuse to avoid embarrassment, in this case it's well within the realm of realistic possibility.
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TallGrass
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Re: Car accident - Stevens Gulch Road - 9/17

Post by TallGrass »

Brake components also fail from the inside out because the fluid isn't flushed regularly. It can be clear in the reservoir but brackish in the lines and calipers (see my prior post). Some unscrupulous shops will only suck out the old fluid in the res' then top it off with fresh so it looks good but isn't. A quick check of the bleeder nipples before and after to see if they've not been disturbed is a tip off, and a good time to inspect the condition of your hoses and lines. You only need a pin hole to lose all pressure.

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IntrepidXJ
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Re: Car accident - Stevens Gulch Road - 9/17

Post by IntrepidXJ »

TallGrass wrote:
coloradokevin wrote:I can't believe someone could shear a brake line coming down that road.
There are three to four rubber brake hoses depending if its a solid rear axle. Winter salt accumulates. Doesn't all get washed off or stays in cracks of older rubber. Marmot or porcupine has a salty snack. Just one hose nicked = no brakes.
Not completely true. The modern master cylinder is actually two separate master cylinders in one housing that each controls two wheels (front and back). You'd have to have a leak in the front and the back to lose all of your brakes. If there is only one leak, you will still have brakes working on two wheels, though probably not near as well as if all 4 were working properly.
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TallGrass
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Re: Car accident - Stevens Gulch Road - 9/17

Post by TallGrass »

IntrepidXJ wrote:Not completely true. The modern master cylinder is actually two separate master cylinders in one housing that each controls two wheels (front and back).
You mean one 'two-chamber' master cylinder, and no it is not a fail safe. Twin MCs would require twin plungers and twin boosters (power brakes) and a yoked balance mechanism. The two-chamber design has been around since at least the '60s and is no guarantee, DAMHIK. One thing should be clear, there are SOOOO many different designs out there that it's up to the owner to know what they have. I'd be surprised if anyone actually had "two separate master cylinders" which would mean independent reservoirs (two separate caps) as a factory street-vehicle set up, though wouldn't be surprised to see it on a dedicated 4x4 rig any more than three lockers. What is often done is a plunger piston with two sections (front lines and rear) each fed by a common res', so if one goes the other can often be pumped dry or ingest air bubbles rendering it ineffective too. When you add the ABS routing, it gets more complex.
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Re: Car accident - Stevens Gulch Road - 9/17

Post by MonGoose »

the toninator wrote:My outback has an electronic parking brake and I didnt think it would engage if it hit it while driving. Did a quick google search:

"If the foot brake has a malfunction, you can stop the vehicle by pressing the parking brake switch continuously."
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Re: Car accident - Stevens Gulch Road - 9/17

Post by XterraRob »

I tend to be more conservative with brake usage in the woods and prefer putting my vehicle in reverse to slow it down on the downhills. Less asbestos for the environment.
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Re: Car accident - Stevens Gulch Road - 9/17

Post by nsaladin »

XterraRob wrote:I tend to be more conservative with brake usage in the woods and prefer putting my vehicle in reverse to slow it down on the downhills. Less asbestos for the environment.
It's weird, every time I have tried to do this same technique I hear grinding noises and it's really hard to get the shifter into gear... :wink: Does the vehicle need to be traveling under 50 mph for this to work?
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Re: Car accident - Stevens Gulch Road - 9/17

Post by snowypeaks »

Perhaps as simple as too much braking caused overheating = no brakes.
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Re: Car accident - Stevens Gulch Road - 9/17

Post by TallGrass »

snowypeaks wrote:Perhaps as simple as too much braking caused overheating = no brakes.
Yep, boiling the brake fluid turning it into gas. FYI, you can safely replace any DOT3 system's fluid with DOT4 which has a higher boiling point. Little reason to even stock DOT3 nowadays. Do NOT use DOT5 though as it's a different base and not compatible.

Mongoose, :lol: what button-pushing job driving has become. And Nsaladin, get up to at least 65mph with the radio turned to 11! ;)
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Re: Car accident - Stevens Gulch Road - 9/17

Post by ironkhem »

The passengers of this accident were in our group. According to one of the passengers, the driver is a transplant new to mountain driving. Was going a little bit faster than he should've and didn't have the transmission in a low gear. Slammed on his brakes when they hit a sketchy patch and the brakes locked up. In order to avoid hitting others down the road, he turned into the hill hoping it would stop the car, which then caused the car to roll over on its side. The accident was definitely the case of "new to Colorado-itis".
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Re: Car accident - Stevens Gulch Road - 9/17

Post by rijaca »

rijaca wrote:I would speculate that the accident was caused by driver error (got going too fast and lost control), not loss of brakes.
ironkhem wrote: Was going a little bit faster than he should've and didn't have the transmission in a low gear. Slammed on his brakes when they hit a sketchy patch and the brakes locked up. In order to avoid hitting others down the road, he turned into the hill hoping it would stop the car, which then caused the car to roll over on its side.
:-"
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Re: Car accident - Stevens Gulch Road - 9/17

Post by AyeYo »

rijaca wrote:
rijaca wrote:I would speculate that the accident was caused by driver error (got going too fast and lost control), not loss of brakes.
ironkhem wrote: Was going a little bit faster than he should've and didn't have the transmission in a low gear. Slammed on his brakes when they hit a sketchy patch and the brakes locked up. In order to avoid hitting others down the road, he turned into the hill hoping it would stop the car, which then caused the car to roll over on its side.
:-"

=D>
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