Car accident - Stevens Gulch Road - 9/17

[larkinrx2]

Ebrake check all the time when flying up to a radar trap, that's how to keep them tested

Also everyone forgets to leave the car in gear and just turn off the engine. This is an automatics best way of engine braking
However on a dirt road with turns you would loose the power assist on steering so a turn into the hill first would probably still be needed first?

[TallGrass]

Also everyone forgets to leave the car in gear and just turn off the engine. This is an automatics best way of engine braking However on a dirt road with turns you would loose the power assist on steering so a turn into the hill first would probably still be needed first?

Good point about turning off the ignition. Power steering (and brakes) may or may not be lost depending on if you have a belt-driven pump, or an electronic pump (some power brakes run off engine vacuum), the latter can be regained by turning the ignition back on. This is where it pays to know your vehicle and whether e-power steering comes on at position I, II, or III and how bump-start-able the vehicle is in each (ideally steering in II).

MikeK, an "an uncontrollable spin" from using the parking brake is more of a concern on snowy roads where the braking force could exceed traction, but that can happen from downshifting too (DAMHIK) and the amount of parking brake force may be easier to modulate, keeping the button pushed on the hand lever or release lever pulled on the foot (kind of screwed on the press-to-release foot ones). Either way, if you release the brake, press the clutch, or shift to neutral quick enough you can regain control, BTDT.

Any of the advice here is useless if you don't learn your vehicle and practice before hand when, unlike careening down a mountain road, you have the time to think it through. Well, I wouldn't practice the "running the car into an obstacle" one ...

[AyeYo]

I used to work as an investigator for the the National Highway Traffic Safety Adminstration (and prior to that in LE). There is no such thing as an "emergency brake." It's a parking brake, period; it's not designed for use in stopping a moving vehicle. Even at low speeds pulling that lever can throw a car into an uncontrollable spin, whether the rear brakes are drum or disc. Downshifting and/running the car into an obstacle is your only option if your brakes go out.

Not to mention the fact that many new cars are coming with electronically operated on/off parking brakes that either: A. won't engage with the vehicle moving or B. would guarantee rear wheel lock if engaged.

However, if you're headed reasonably straight, even locking the rear wheels isn't going to spin the car.

Turning off the ignition is also a horrible practice, as anyone that doesn't have the presence of mind in that moment to simply downshift, probably isn't going to be capable of only turning the ignition back ONE click... and will instead crank it back to the steering wheel lock position, with predictably catastrophic results. There is absolutely no reason to EVER turn the ignition off while driving. Even in a stuck throttle situation you can simply shift to neutral. It also offers no addition engine braking force and maybe even less, as most modern cars with manually shiftable autos lock the torque converter when manual mode is engaged. You would lose this lock (and the better engine braking it provides) if you shut the ignition off.

Downshift, pull the parking brake firmly and progressively (you'll be hard pressed to lock it unless on snow or very loose ground) until you either stop or are no longer on a hill. Mission accomplished. It amazes me that stuff like that isn't taught in driving school and part of licensing tests. If you have one of those push button parking brakes... downshift and pray.

[rijaca]

I would speculate that the accident was caused by driver error (got going too fast and lost control), not loss of brakes.

[Marmot96]

I would speculate that the accident was caused by driver error (got going too fast and lost control), not loss of brakes.

On the facebook post, someone who knew the owners of the car said it was brake loss.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BillMiddlebrook]

Apparently loss of brakes and then not knowing how to use the Emergency Brake and down-shifting.

[the toninator]

This is a good thread - My outback has an electronic parking brake and I didnt think it would engage if it hit it while driving. Did a quick google search:

"If the foot brake has a malfunction, you can stop the vehicle by pressing the parking brake switch continuously." Good to know, hope I don't have to remember to hold it down and if i do I hope I have the time...

[Jay521]

The accident happened last weekend (11Sep). We came down the road not long after it had happened. One lady had some scratches and the driver was saying he lost his brakes. Everyone seemed a bit shook up but no apparent serious injuries There were a lot of people around and a fairly huge traffic jam and a CSP patrol car was heading up just as I got past the accident. It looked like it was going to be a real job to get that vehicle outa there but tow truck drivers seem to pull off the unimaginable sometimes. Also - ditto what some others have written - I don't think I used the brakes in my stick shift FJ at all on the way down.

[alpha]

The accident happened last weekend (11Sep). We came down the road not long after it had happened. One lady had some scratches and the driver was saying he lost his brakes. Everyone seemed a bit shook up but no apparent serious injuries There were a lot of people around and a fairly huge traffic jam and a CSP patrol car was heading up just as I got past the accident. It looked like it was going to be a real job to get that vehicle outa there but tow truck drivers seem to pull off the unimaginable sometimes. Also - ditto what some others have written - I don't think I used the brakes in my stick shift FJ at all on the way down.

I'm pretty sure there was another one this weekend. That's how I took it anyway.
...Which makes it even more ridiculous...

[Jay521]

I'm pretty sure there was another one this weekend. That's how I took it anyway.
...Which makes it even more ridiculous...

The one last weekend was a black GMC SUV that bought the farm not far below that old building that sits on the side of the road on probably the steepest/bumpiest section of the road.

You mean there was another "lost brakes" episode on that road? Yikes! That is ridiculous... Or the brake line gremlins are hard at work...

[JQDivide]

I'm a bit skeptical on this "lost my brakes" thing.

I know it can happen... but... to lose brakes in under 3 miles of travel... sure they could get heated in that time, but....

(Maybe they thought they were hitting the break pedal, but were just pushing on the floor board, that happens too.)

Any mechanically inclined people out there have any insight?

JQ

[KansanClimber]

It wouldn't be impossible for a brake line to have been cut, broken, corroded, or chewed through. A porcupine could have done it, or like someone else said maybe salt corrosion. Those lines have some pressure in them, so a small leak can make everything useless.