RAW files... why didn't I do this sooner

Camera equipment and technique for taking photos.
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djkest
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RAW files... why didn't I do this sooner

Post by djkest »

So I lugged my camera on many 14ers along the way, but I always shot in JPEG- which is OKAY, if you don't plan on editing much. But now that I am shooting in RAW + JPEG, the difference is staggering.

So if you have the ability to shoot in RAW, you really should- if you are doing any sort of editing. I noticed it mostly in recovery of image information in overexposure/underexposure situations, and in the sky too. When I tweak photos in Lightroom, it's easy for them to become pixelated and blocky in JPEG, but in RAW it just doesn't happen. If I really felt like it, I could make a comparison between the two, but that's too much work considering how far I am behind on my photo editing. :shock:

The biggest problem with RAW is that it takes up a lot of space, but Memory cards are dirt cheap right now. I got a high-speed 16 GB card for $11 on Amazon with free shipping. :-D
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Re: RAW files... why didn't I do this sooner

Post by mtn_nut »

djkest wrote:So I lugged my camera on many 14ers along the way, but I always shot in JPEG- which is OKAY, if you don't plan on editing much. But now that I am shooting in RAW + JPEG, the difference is staggering.

So if you have the ability to shoot in RAW, you really should- if you are doing any sort of editing. I noticed it mostly in recovery of image information in overexposure/underexposure situations, and in the sky too. When I tweak photos in Lightroom, it's easy for them to become pixelated and blocky in JPEG, but in RAW it just doesn't happen. If I really felt like it, I could make a comparison between the two, but that's too much work considering how far I am behind on my photo editing. :shock:

The biggest problem with RAW is that it takes up a lot of space, but Memory cards are dirt cheap right now. I got a high-speed 16 GB card for $11 on Amazon with free shipping. :-D
I almost shoot entirely RAW and its amazing what Lightroom can do with a bit of practice. I don't mess with the white balance or much of any of the settings in the field, shooting aperture priority or auto mode most of the time. My Ricoh GR (fantastic camera) also has a TAV mode with i've found to be useful on a rare occasion when i want a certain depth of field and a certain shutter speed (macro flowers mostly), and i'll shoot full manual mode for night time shots on a tripod. After the trip, its easy to get the correct exposure and white balance as long as i was 95% there in the field, and it really turns mediocre shots into good shots, and turns good shots into great ones. I try to limit my editing to what i could have done in the field if i took more time to compose the shot to keep the photos as real as possible.

Here are two favorites from my last two trips (resized)

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Image

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Re: RAW files... why didn't I do this sooner

Post by cpb145 »

So I have the ability to shoot in RAW, but am currently using the highest quality jpeg setting. I have tried RAW when I first got my camera, but the size of the converted file was smaller than the size of a high quality jpeg....by a lot. So I figured why bother? Someone please tell me why I should bother, or better yet, what am I screwing up?
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Re: RAW files... why didn't I do this sooner

Post by mtn_nut »

cpb145 wrote:So I have the ability to shoot in RAW, but am currently using the highest quality jpeg setting. I have tried RAW when I first got my camera, but the size of the converted file was smaller than the size of a high quality jpeg....by a lot. So I figured why bother? Someone please tell me why I should bother, or better yet, what am I screwing up?
RAW files should be larger than the JPEG files. depending on the camera, they will be different file types (my Ricoh records them as adobe DNG files, which are more universal).

What camera are you shooting? What file type was the output of the RAW file?
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Re: RAW files... why didn't I do this sooner

Post by mattpayne11 »

djkest wrote:So I lugged my camera on many 14ers along the way, but I always shot in JPEG- which is OKAY, if you don't plan on editing much. But now that I am shooting in RAW + JPEG, the difference is staggering.

So if you have the ability to shoot in RAW, you really should- if you are doing any sort of editing. I noticed it mostly in recovery of image information in overexposure/underexposure situations, and in the sky too. When I tweak photos in Lightroom, it's easy for them to become pixelated and blocky in JPEG, but in RAW it just doesn't happen. If I really felt like it, I could make a comparison between the two, but that's too much work considering how far I am behind on my photo editing. :shock:

The biggest problem with RAW is that it takes up a lot of space, but Memory cards are dirt cheap right now. I got a high-speed 16 GB card for $11 on Amazon with free shipping. :-D
Yeah, the difference is unreal. Higher end cameras can recover an incredible amount of details from the shadows. This is where you see a lot of artists now using luminosity masks to blend exposures to bring out the best of each layer of light for a nice smooth histogram. It takes a ton of work in post and a lot of time to learn, but it can be worth it, for sure.
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Re: RAW files... why didn't I do this sooner

Post by cpb145 »

mtn_nut wrote:
cpb145 wrote:So I have the ability to shoot in RAW, but am currently using the highest quality jpeg setting. I have tried RAW when I first got my camera, but the size of the converted file was smaller than the size of a high quality jpeg....by a lot. So I figured why bother? Someone please tell me why I should bother, or better yet, what am I screwing up?
RAW files should be larger than the JPEG files. depending on the camera, they will be different file types (my Ricoh records them as adobe DNG files, which are more universal).

What camera are you shooting? What file type was the output of the RAW file?
My camera is an Olympus, and it outputs in a true RAW. The RAW is larger than the highest quality jpeg, but when I convert the RAW into a jpeg format, it is smaller than had I just shot at the highest quality jpeg if that makes sense...
-Chris
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Re: RAW files... why didn't I do this sooner

Post by pw »

cpb145 wrote:So I have the ability to shoot in RAW, but am currently using the highest quality jpeg setting. I have tried RAW when I first got my camera, but the size of the converted file was smaller than the size of a high quality jpeg....by a lot. So I figured why bother? Someone please tell me why I should bother, or better yet, what am I screwing up?
You should not be seeing such a difference in file size. Either you did something wrong, or you converted files that were compressed a bunch when converted to jpeg due to not having that much information, as in lots of blue sky, or snow, or some such thing.

I mainly shoot raw for two reasons - I can adjust the white balance easily, and I can recover detail in shadows and blend photos together, as Matt says in another post. That does take some work and some experience and some software. I think Lightroom has a tool that lets you do this without the blending business (I'm using Elements to do that). Partly depends on your tolerance for doing post processing I think, and how serious you want to get about photography. Present day cameras usually do a good job of getting exposures and white balance correct, so in undemanding scenes a jpeg is usually quite good. But in landscape photography you often have a greater dynamic range than the sensor can handle (the human eye sees a much greater range of light to dark than a camera can), that's where the raw file is invaluable.
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Re: RAW files... why didn't I do this sooner

Post by thatmushroom »

It might make sense, depending on the photo. Not every JPEG converter is the same, so the final output after converting from RAW might be more efficient/make other choices than the one in your camera. If it's a huge size difference, you might need to double check that you're outputting a sufficiently high quality JPEG, too.

And yes, I heart editing RAW photos. It makes it so much easier to recover highlights and shadows (though a proper exposure is always the best way). I've found that shooting in RAW lets you use one shot to achieve what you want, whereas I might have had to use a few shots blended together with JPEG pics.
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Re: RAW files... why didn't I do this sooner

Post by mtn_nut »

cpb145 wrote:
mtn_nut wrote:
cpb145 wrote:So I have the ability to shoot in RAW, but am currently using the highest quality jpeg setting. I have tried RAW when I first got my camera, but the size of the converted file was smaller than the size of a high quality jpeg....by a lot. So I figured why bother? Someone please tell me why I should bother, or better yet, what am I screwing up?
RAW files should be larger than the JPEG files. depending on the camera, they will be different file types (my Ricoh records them as adobe DNG files, which are more universal).

What camera are you shooting? What file type was the output of the RAW file?
My camera is an Olympus, and it outputs in a true RAW. The RAW is larger than the highest quality jpeg, but when I convert the RAW into a jpeg format, it is smaller than had I just shot at the highest quality jpeg if that makes sense...

Gotcha. I would check the JPEG compression of whatever software you're using as a converter. In lightroom, its the quality slider in the exporter. I always have it to the highest value, which leaves me with the largest files, but i also use a 2TB external hard drive to store my photos, so size doesn't matter to me.
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Re: RAW files... why didn't I do this sooner

Post by cpb145 »

Thanks for all the replies, hope I didn't hijack the thread!

So I am more than fine with doing post processing work, and almost always do at least some to some extent. It usually involves masking the sky and terrain seperatly to get white balance and dynamic range looking better. That being said, if I will have more success with this in RAW, I'm down to give this another shot. I am using MS digital imaging suite pro or something like that for editing, but had used the Olympus software for converting the RAWS. I had it set to the highest quality for converting, but was still coming in much smaller in file size than the highest quality jpegs if taken directly from the camera. Maybe try another file conversion software? And dumb question, I should be editing the RAW before converting to get the benefits of shooting in RAW, correct? Also, any reason to shoot in RAW+jpeg and plow through more memory card space, or is shooting in just RAW fine?
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Re: RAW files... why didn't I do this sooner

Post by thatmushroom »

RAW+jpeg is what I'd use if I wanted to share some pics immediately and do some editing later. Otherwise, I don't see much use for it. And yes, you'd edit in RAW ajd export to jpeg.

And I would highly recommend picking up Lightroom for post processing. You can probably give it a test drive with the new Adobe Creative Cloud package for photographers for cheap.
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Re: RAW files... why didn't I do this sooner

Post by peter303 »

People got used to compressed images when cameras only contianed 32 or 64 megabytes ten+ years ago.
You could only save a couple hundred pictures.
Now there is a 1000x more storage allowing lots of raw images.
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