Skier triggered avalanche in Clinton Gulch

[George James]

Bump again. I don't mean to be overly speculative or overstep my boundaries, I just really want to keep myself and my group out of these situations, and the more I hear about this incident the more I want to know...

http://www.skyhidailynews.com/article/20091102/NEWS/911029999/1079&ParentProfile=1067

A spokesperson for the hospital said the patient — whose name has not yet been released — remained in stable condition Monday afternoon, but did not release any other details.

Well that's good, but I can't help but be worried for this guy that keeping his leg is still not a sure thing. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you, unnamed victim...

Two members of the group were Vail ski patrollers, according to a member of the search and rescue team.

...really?

[tmathews]

7News is now reporting that the skier was 17...?
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/21492390/detail.html

They also have posted some photos of the incident: http://www.thedenverchannel.com/slideshow/news/21492859/detail.html

[dpk]

glad he's alive and heading towards recovery. Better lucky than good . . .

[cvrti5]

Sorry about being Captain Obvious, but I'm gonna *really* rethink where I want to snowshoe this year. It looks like some of those early snowstorms set up a nice layer close to the ground for avalanches to bomb down--meaning massive cut-to-the-ground avs this yr. Am I wrong?

[Hacksaw]

Remember, in Colorado avalanche fatalities are primarily from trauma not asphyxiation.

I really don't know where you came up with this stat/idea. But, tonight I spoke with Dale Atkins (former CAIC forecaster, ICAR American avalanche committee rep, one of the last authors of THE SNOWY TORRENTS) and he says he doesn't even have stats on primary cause of death for JUST Colordao vs the rest of the country. In the USA most avalanche victims die of asphyxiation.

.. so an avalanche beacon is no substitute for common sense (it just makes it easier to recover your body).

As for avalanche transcivers not being a substitute for common sense you are correct.

As for them just making recovery of the victim's body eaiser you maybe only partial correct. There have been a large number of folks world wide recovered ALIVE because they wore an avalanche transceivers. But, at the same time there have been a lot of folks recovered dead, and they didn't have avalanche transcivers on them.

Obviously, if someone has a avalanche transciver on them it is easier to find them, compared to if they don't have one. The real issue is if you're backcountry partners are VERY practiced with their avalanche transceiver so that they can find you in less then 5 minutes. Because depending upon burial depth, it may take you're parteners 10 to 30 minutes to dig you out. Because one stat says that you're chances of survival (full-burial) in an avalanche drop-off from 92% at around 15 - 17 minutes, to 30% at around 35 minutes.

[Fiemus]

Remember, in Colorado avalanche fatalities are primarily from trauma not asphyxiation.

I really don't know where you came up with this stat/idea. But, tonight I spoke with Dale Atkins (former CAIC forecaster, ICAR American avalanche committee rep, one of the last authors of THE SNOWY TORRENTS) and he says he doesn't even have stats on primary cause of death for JUST Colordao vs the rest of the country. In the USA most avalanche victims die of asphyxiation.

It's a stat often quoted at the SCRG avalanche seminars (at which both you and Dale have been instructors) - but TBH I don't know the exact source. I'll find out for you.

[CO Native]

I wouldn't spend too much time looking for support of trauma being the leading cause of death in an avalanche. Though I was initially taught that as well, studies have shown that by far the leading cause of death is asphyxiation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2645441/
http://www.healthline.com/blogs/outdoor_health/2008/01/cause-of-death-in-avalanche-fatalities.html

[Fiemus]

I wouldn't spend too much time looking for support of trauma being the leading cause of death in an avalanche. Though I was initially taught that as well, studies have shown that by far the leading cause of death is asphyxiation.

Yes, I'm aware that asphyxia is the leading cause of death in avalanches worldwide - my assertion was that in Colorado the incidence of trauma is actually higher (due to the higher levels of tree skiing, and generally lower snowpack depth which brings rocks more into play). I'm still searching for the stats to back that up - but it could just be rescue group folklore. I know that thorough autopsies weren't always performed and so good data on the subject is hard to find.

[krz2fer]

Sorry about being Captain Obvious, but I'm gonna *really* rethink where I want to snowshoe this year. It looks like some of those early snowstorms set up a nice layer close to the ground for avalanches to bomb down--meaning massive cut-to-the-ground avs this yr. Am I wrong?

You are correct. With 2-3 ft falling last week, the standard wind movement afterward, and now no moisture for 2 weeks, that layer has become highly variable and weak in spots. Probably a smart idea to think twice about the terrain you'll be snowshoeing regardless (just like with any form of backcountry travel). But, also just be aware of what's going on the in the mountains. Following CAIC on a daily basis is a great way to think ahead and make informed decisions.

[killingcokes]

If for some reason you can't check out CAIC everyday they have links to all their daily reports on the website so you can catch up on developments in the snowpack.

[Fiemus]

my assertion was that in Colorado the incidence of trauma is actually higher (due to the higher levels of tree skiing, and generally lower snowpack depth which brings rocks more into play). I'm still searching for the stats to back that up - but it could just be rescue group folklore.

It appears that this was folklore. Dale's rough stats suggest >70% asphyxia for avi deaths in CO since 1970... so I stand corrected. I therefore retract my slightly flippant remark above that an avi beacon is primarily to help find your body - as it seems the opportunity for companion rescue is still relatively good, even in Colorado. The chances of a SAR team reaching you in the first 15-20mins is still highly unlikely, so make sure your companions know how to use their beacons!

[ScottN]

Sorry about being Captain Obvious, but I'm gonna *really* rethink where I want to snowshoe this year. It looks like some of those early snowstorms set up a nice layer close to the ground for avalanches to bomb down--meaning massive cut-to-the-ground avs this yr. Am I wrong?

Welcome to an intercontinental snowpack. It's like this every year.

[Hacksaw]

Welcome to an intercontinental snowpack. It's like this every year.

Actually, to be totally snow-nerd correct, Colorado has a Continental snowpack....

[George James]

Looks like even ESPN is taking notice of the snowy October here in Colorado. I thought it was a decent article worth sharing:

http://espn.go.com/action/freeskiing/blog/_/post/4617231

In Colorado, avalanche fatalities—going by the statistics—are always a matter of when, not if. But this season is feeling particularly ominous. Maybe two or three seasons of relative stability are working to re-write institutional memory about Colorado snowpack: Some of the least predictable and most fragile in the world.

All these incidents so far are at high elevation—because that's where the snow is. And they're all northeast aspects, places where the snow's gonna stick around and be windloaded. And in all but a few incidents they've found weak layers right above the ground on an ice crust. So a very classic weak layer with snow drifted in on top of it; that's been common in at least three incidents. --- Spencer Logan

[ScottN]

Welcome to an intercontinental snowpack. It's like this every year.

Actually, to be totally snow-nerd correct, Colorado has a Continental snowpack....

It's funny, I actually couldnt remember and I googled to confirm. I blame the internet!