Drone climber on CPR 10am today

[polar]

Some how using technology caught peoples attention and even worse brought up the slippery-slope fallacy.

Because "drone" is such a buzz word right now, if they said they used remote controlled quacopter (which is really what they used), they wouldn't have gotten this type of media attention. The word "drone" has really been misused to refer to any remote controlled flying toy. Or I guess you can also say the word has evolved. But we've had remote controlled airplanes/helicopters for decades now, when did we start calling them "drones"? "Drones" used to refer only to UAVs (Unmanned Aerial Vehicle) in the military. They are basically glorified remote controlled airplanes, but with a key difference: they can fly autonomously with onboard software, in case the remote control connection is lost or something. Unless those remote controlled quacopters can also fly autonomously, they are really not drones, just really expensive toys.

[Jim Davies]

Would this be such an issue if he'd been able to get the leader rope up there with an arrow?

[jomagam]

Would this be such an issue if he'd been able to get the leader rope up there with an arrow?

IMO arrows are still out of bounds. Using drone a drone was only half of what felt wrong to me. The other half is that for 90% of the climb he's just jumaring, so climbing the rope not the rock. Suppose there a 100' tall rock face that constantly overhangs by 45 degrees and a tree on the top. Would throwing a rope around the tree (by whatever means), then ascending the it count as aiding the rock face ? Doesn't sound right to me.

[Furthermore]

This thread cracks me up.

For those who don't know, Mr. Goldstein has done a swath of adventure climbing including many reputable first ascents. One that sticks out in my mind is the first clean aid ascent of the Wiggins Route on the Sharks Fin. 5.8 C4, respectively. I don't know too many people that have the kahunas to lead C4. I'm just guessing, but I bet if he deemed it easier than 5.10-11 C3-4, he would have tried to "climb" it.

Fact - First ascent is defined as "the first successful, documented attainment of the top of a mountain." Check.

Fact - Aid climbing (which is still climbing) is defined as "a style of climbing in which standing on or pulling oneself up via devices attached to fixed or placed protection is used to make upward progress." Check.

Why is there any argument? Folks may not agree on the style in which it was done but the fact remains he did climb and did get the first climbing ascent. If you don't like the style in which it was done, then go do the first a free ascent. Once you claimed a FFA, then you can talk sh!t about ethics. Until then, clip some bolts, cry, yard on some draws and brag about sending 5.10; I do all the time.

That volcanic tuff, which the lower part of the formation is, is no joke. Personally, I would prefer to use hammer to aid the tower but I'm not judging.

My experience with super chossy towers:
Some things are not even worth even aid climbing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zXjcQp ... e=youtu.be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Used a bow and arrow to get that one.
http://listsofjohn.com/tr?Id=4349&pkid=5874" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[caverdude]

As a climber and caver I have employed many different "tricks" to gain access to areas inside caves that would not be easily accessible without serious impact on the cave. Lassoing formations, using a slingshot and fishing line, or helium balloons to place ropes over bedrock features are all considered fair game to allow exploration of the underground world. Sometimes aid climbing techniques fall outside the "normal" means, but they still allow you access to areas that would be unattainable without them. In Carlsbad Caverns NP many noteworthy climbs have employed these techniques. The exploration of the Spirit World in Carlsbad Caverns Big Room was accomplished using helium balloons to position an anchor ring around a large stalagmite. Once the rope was in place, cavers ascended the fixed rope to survey and explore a previously unexplored area in the cave.
Personally I have used a slingshot and fishing line to help climb a large dome (Trepidation Dome) inside Lechuguilla Cave. Our climbing team employed a host of "normal" aid climbing tools (hooks, tricams, removable bolts, wired nuts, and cams) to climb the overhanging wall and reach the opening of the dome in the Prickly Ice Cube room ceiling. Once inside the dome, we were faced with a very overhanging bedrock wall that would require a bolt ladder due to the lack of wall features. Rather than forcing our way up the wall and leaving behind a line of bolts or bolt holes, we decided to employ a slingshot and some spiderwire fishing line to get a small cord over a bedrock bridge about 35ft above the ledge system inside the dome. After a 9mm static rope was looped over the bridge and anchored off, I used ascenders to climb the rope to the base of the bridge. Once at the bridge, I used slings and aiders to pull over the overhang and drilled bolts to create a good belay. My friend Dave then ascended the rope and I belayed him as he used hooks and natural pro to climb the remaining distance to the top of the dome. Although the dome did not lead to a huge amount of virgin cave passage, it needed to be climbed to eliminate a very promising cave lead from the list of unexplored leads.
Climbing the rope over the Bridge Too Far:

Climbing the rope to the Bridge Too Far

Lech 8-2007 056 copy.jpg (112.77 KiB) Viewed 3155 times

Aiding onto the top of the bridge:

Aiding onto the top of the bridge

Lech 8-2007 057 copy.jpg (89.28 KiB) Viewed 3155 times

I agree that many of the newer climbers need to think outside the box. Climbing has always been about exploring the unknown, whether it's a new summit or just finding out what is around the corner. There is a lot more to climbing than just freeclimbing while clipping bolts. I hope this thread promotes climbers to engage their spirit of exploration.

[Dave B]

I hope this thread promotes climbers to engage their spirit of exploration.

Is there a topo for that?