Bross Solution: New Summit?

Colorado peak questions, condition requests and other info.
Forum rules
  • This is a mountaineering forum, so please keep your posts on-topic. Posts do not all have to be related to the 14ers but should at least be mountaineering-related.
  • Personal attacks and confrontational behavior will result in removal from the forum at the discretion of the administrators.
  • Do not use this forum to advertise, sell photos or other products or promote a commercial website.
  • Posts will be removed at the discretion of the site administrator or moderator(s), including: Troll posts, posts pushing political views or religious beliefs, and posts with the purpose of instigating conflict within the forum.
    For more details, please see the Terms of Use you agreed to when joining the forum.
Locked

Good Idea (see first post, below)?

Yes
115
85%
No
21
15%
 
Total votes: 136
User avatar
BillMiddlebrook
Site Administrator
Posts: 6910
Joined: 7/25/2004
14ers: 58  46  19 
13ers: 172 44 37
Trip Reports (2)
 
Contact:

Bross Solution: New Summit?

Post by BillMiddlebrook »

The Mt. Bross issue has been a thorn in our side for many years and I'd like to propose an interim solution...

Now that we have a legitimate, open trail via the Kite Lake "loop," there's a sliver of public land that intersects the trail right where many people exit to grab the "closed" Bross summit. Why not use this sliver to gain the summit area and we could put a somewhat large, obvious cairn up there where I've placed the orange star on the map below? If you've been in that area, it's almost as high as the actual elevation and would allow hikers to "summit" the peak and get the views of surrounding peaks and valleys. I'm serious! All we'd have to do is mark the trail to the cairn and pile up some rocks. Then we'd have a public "summit" that's only ~25 feet lower than the old one. I'll help mark it and build it.

And when/if the true summit ever gets re-opened, we can use part of that new spur to just angle off to the summit.

Good idea or not? ^^ Poll above

Image

Would this really matter much?
Image
"When I go out, I become more alive. I just love skiing. The gravitational pull. When you ski steep terrain... you can almost get a feeling of flying." -Doug Coombs
User avatar
gdthomas
Posts: 1983
Joined: 6/15/2005
14ers: 58 
Trip Reports (3)
 

Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Post by gdthomas »

It's a reasonable alternative Bill, but I see one issue. I doubt the "new" summit will dissuade those who don't respect private property rights from hiking the additional 25 ft. to the true summit. Another point, which I don't consider to be an issue, is that some have cried foul when anyone climbing to the closed sign (approx. 150 ft. below the summit) suggested that was good enough to count it as a successful 14er summit. I assume these same people would also get heartburn if the climber only reached point 14,147". Nevertheless, I would help as well.
Last edited by gdthomas on Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Monster5
Posts: 1759
Joined: 8/7/2009
14ers: 58  31 
13ers: 289 37
Trip Reports (27)
 
Contact:

Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Post by Monster5 »

Sounds reasonable for some people. Personally, I do not believe "inconvenient" or "legally difficult" equates to non-existence or altering the facts. i.e. ABC 14er finishers or skipping the Sunlight step. It would personally bug me, though I wouldn't care if others considered it..
"The road to alpine climbing is pocked and poorly marked, ending at an unexpectedly closed gate 5 miles from the trailhead." - MP user Beckerich
User avatar
crossfitter
Posts: 901
Joined: 7/7/2009
Trip Reports (7)
 

Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Post by crossfitter »

We should consider gaining the summit of Bross to be an objective hazard only to be attempted by true Badasses. I propose that we establish a semi-permanent Camp IV just below the closed sign. Parties will then make their summit bid under cover of darkness sometime after midnight. These brave adventurers will have mere hours to climb more than a hundred vertical feet and safely return to the public land zone before they risk years of detention in Federal PMITA Prison. However, I have heard rumors that some hardcore mountaineers attempt the summit hours after first light, without oxygen in true alpine style.
- A mountain is not a checkbox to be ticked
- Alpinism and mountaineering are not restricted to 14,000 foot mountains
- Judgment and experience are the two most important pieces of gear you own
- Being honest to yourself and others about your abilities is a characteristic of experienced climbers
- Courage cannot be bought at REI or carried with you in your rucksack

User avatar
coloradokevin
Posts: 1457
Joined: 6/13/2007
14ers: 15 
Trip Reports (5)
 

Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Post by coloradokevin »

I think it is a reasonable enough idea for those of us who don't feel like trespassing, though you're always going to hear arguments from the purists about how anyone who uses that "public" summit has cheated (but, hey, those same people will also beat you up on 3,000 foot rules, and plenty of other trivial issues that have never bothered me).

Honestly, I still don't care if people try to access the true summit, simple because it just doesn't strike me as an egregious violation of this guy's property rights, even if it is private land. But, I'd be satisfied with the substitute summit myself. As your picture demonstrates, does it really make any difference at all? I'd argue that it doesn't make a significant difference in claiming the "public" summit, nor does it make a significant difference if you cross the imaginary line on the map to gain the true summit from the public summit.


Here's another idea: since the uncooperative property owner apparently claims that he needs to keep that summit private for his future mining endeavors, maybe we should just ask him to rearrange that slag heap of a mountain for us? He could drive his bulldozer up there, strip a bit of land from his side of the peak, put the material on the public side, and now we've got our publicly accessible 14'er! Climbers will rejoice at their ability to stand on the true summit, and the landowner will be happy that his property is no longer of any value to those terribly invasive trespassing hikers (who may have been damaging his minerals for all of these years).
Last edited by coloradokevin on Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
COBuckeye
Posts: 279
Joined: 7/19/2009
14ers: 34  7  1 
13ers: 8 3
Trip Reports (2)
 

Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Post by COBuckeye »

crossfitter wrote:detention in Federal PMITA Prison
name that movie...
"...cause I got changed by what I've been shown, more glory than the world has known, keeps me ramblin' on..." - Josh Garrels (Farther Along)
User avatar
Mel McKinney
Posts: 1309
Joined: 7/19/2006
14ers: 29 
Trip Reports (3)
 

Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Post by Mel McKinney »

I'd be willing to help too. It's been several years since I was on the Bross summit, and I don't remember if there are any "no tresspassing" signs. Would it be feasible to ask the landowners to fund a sign marking the old summit off-limits?

Truthfully, Bross is not an exciting summit. -25 ft wouldn't make much of a difference. The most exciting part of Bross is getting back down the scree.
Mountains cast spells on me - Why, because of the way Earth-heaps lie, should I be Chocked by joy mysteriously; stilled or drunken-gay? Why should a brown hill trail Tug at my feet to go? Why should a boggy swale Tune my heart to a nameless tale Mountain marshes know?
--- Belle Turnbull ("Mountain-Mad")
User avatar
RJansen77
Posts: 387
Joined: 5/9/2011
14ers: 52  3  9 
13ers: 6 1
Trip Reports (17)
 

Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Post by RJansen77 »

COBuckeye wrote:
crossfitter wrote:detention in Federal PMITA Prison
name that movie...
Office Space?

"Peter Gibbons, you've lead a trite and meaningless life..."
"But it doesn't matter if your in Valdez skiing out of a helicopter, or putzing around on a flat hill somewhere in Iowa. That adrenaline rush comes when you satisfy your most basic instinct, your own search for freedom."

-Warren Miller


I almost always wear a bathing suit when I climb. If you see me say hey!
User avatar
Mel McKinney
Posts: 1309
Joined: 7/19/2006
14ers: 29 
Trip Reports (3)
 

Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Post by Mel McKinney »

COBuckeye wrote:
crossfitter wrote:detention in Federal PMITA Prison
name that movie...
That would be "Office Space." And no, there are no conjugal visits.
Mountains cast spells on me - Why, because of the way Earth-heaps lie, should I be Chocked by joy mysteriously; stilled or drunken-gay? Why should a brown hill trail Tug at my feet to go? Why should a boggy swale Tune my heart to a nameless tale Mountain marshes know?
--- Belle Turnbull ("Mountain-Mad")
User avatar
coloradokevin
Posts: 1457
Joined: 6/13/2007
14ers: 15 
Trip Reports (5)
 

Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Post by coloradokevin »

COBuckeye wrote:
crossfitter wrote:detention in Federal PMITA Prison
name that movie...
Office Space! Damn it feels good to be a gangsta'
Last edited by coloradokevin on Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
SurfNTurf
Posts: 1890
Joined: 8/20/2009
14ers: 58  28 
13ers: 127 7
Trip Reports (48)
 
Contact:

Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Post by SurfNTurf »

crossfitter wrote:We should consider gaining the summit of Bross to be an objective hazard only to be attempted by true Badasses. I propose that we establish a semi-permanent Camp IV just below the closed sign. Parties will then make their summit bid under cover of darkness sometime after midnight. These brave adventurers will have mere hours to climb more than a hundred vertical feet and safely return to the public land zone before they risk years of detention in Federal PMITA Prison. However, I have heard rumors that some hardcore mountaineers attempt the summit hours after first light, without oxygen in true alpine style.
I'm submitting my (alleged) winter summit for a Piolet d'Or.

In all seriousness, I'm fine with the idea. I don't see a negative. Even if it deterred a percentage of folks from stepping onto private property, it'd be a display of good will and possibly aid negotiations. I think the keyword in the original post is interim solution.

In my mind there's a difference between the summit of Bross and the final move on Sunlight -- I'd be fine counting Bross from anywhere on that lumpy football field, but it'd nag at me until I repeated it if I'd declined the true Sunlight summit. It already bugs me enough I crouched instead of standing.
Last edited by SurfNTurf on Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
“There are two kinds of climbers: those who climb because their heart sings when they’re in the mountains, and all the rest.” - Alex Lowe

"There have been joys too great to describe in words, and there have been griefs upon which I cannot dare to dwell; and with those in mind I say, 'Climb if you will, but remember that courage and strength are nought without prudence, and that a momentary negligence may destroy the happiness of a lifetime. Do nothing in haste, look well to each step, and from the beginning think what may be the end.'" - Edward Whymper
User avatar
crossfitter
Posts: 901
Joined: 7/7/2009
Trip Reports (7)
 

Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Post by crossfitter »

coloradokevin wrote:
Here's another idea: since the uncooperative property owner apparently claims that he needs to keep that summit private for his future mining endeavors, maybe we should just ask him to rearrange that slag heap of a mountain for us? He could drive his bulldozer up there, strip a bit of land from his side of the peak, put the material on the public side, and now we've got our publicly accessible 14'er! Climbers will rejoice at their ability to stand on the true summit, and the landowner will be happy that his property is no longer of any value to those terribly invasive trespassing hikers (who may have been damaging his minerals for all of these years).
I think you're on to something here. Though instead of destroying the pristine wilderness that is the summit of Bross, we should have the Landowner haul up a large boulder to build up the summit on public land. If the right boulder is chosen, our brand new summit block would upgrade bross from class 1 to 5.12a, V5, A3.
- A mountain is not a checkbox to be ticked
- Alpinism and mountaineering are not restricted to 14,000 foot mountains
- Judgment and experience are the two most important pieces of gear you own
- Being honest to yourself and others about your abilities is a characteristic of experienced climbers
- Courage cannot be bought at REI or carried with you in your rucksack

Locked