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Everest Attempt

Discussion area for peaks outside of the USA.
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Re: Everest Attempt

Postby jbchalk » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:12 pm

RoanMtnMan wrote:
jbchalk wrote: If these big guided commercial outfits didn't exist, its likely many climbers' dreams would not be realized on the big peaks.


Think about all the legitimate AMGA and IFMGA guides that would never have the opportunity to climb big peaks. There aren't too many professional climbers that have the resources for an Everest permit. Much less a trip to Antarctica. Then the field of climbers on the worlds great peaks would be reduced to those that can climb, and have a ton of money. A very small number. I think that is a worse scenario than the way things currently are.


Absolutely correct. Most prof guides would never have the opportunity to climb the big guys at all if it wasn't for the big commercial guiding companies. Yes, while its not ideal on Everest right now, at least people can have an attempt to see their dreams realized.

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Re: Everest Attempt

Postby sunny1 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:22 pm

ThuChad wrote: My gut feeling when I first read this article was "this is ridiculous". It scares me to think there are less prepared people that attempt Everest. I was wondering if my initial reaction was justified or if I'm just being a little too cynical.


Do we really know all the details of her preparation - and do we really care? She's active. She's done Denali and Cho Oyu. She's actively pursuing her dreams, whether she goes guided or unguided is up to her.
Kudos to her!

I think this is another example of changing times - it's become "easier" to do some things that used to be very difficult. We can be bitter or we can embrace today's reality.
We could say the same thing about climbing 14ers, 13ers and other peaks - heck, we have 14ers.com and other websites, full of information, to search. What about the mountaineers who went before us with only a map (or less), no descriptions available, no trip reports, no GPS coordinates?? Are we ashamed of pursuing our dreams and meeting our goals because the way is easier?? Are we belittling their accomplishments?? I think not.

My sense is you're burned by this perhaps because you'd like the opp'y to do alot more yourself. And it seems to be so easy for her to do that, based on the front page of this newspaper.

Humble $0.02.

Time for me to hit THE BACK ROOM :mrgreen:
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Re: Everest Attempt

Postby 12ersRule » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:39 pm

sunny1 wrote:Time for me to hit THE BACK ROOM


Good post, Sunny one! I'd like to see THE BACK ROOM organize itself into a sort of panel that would judge the worthiness of one's ambitions in the mountains.

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Re: Everest Attempt

Postby ThuChad » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:39 pm

sunny1 wrote:Do we really know all the details of her preparation - and do we really care? She's active. She's done Denali and Cho Oyu. She's actively pursuing her dreams, whether she goes guided or unguided is up to her.
I think this is another example of changing times - it's become "easier" to do some things that used to be very difficult. We can be bitter or we can embrace today's reality.
We could say the same thing about climbing 14ers, 13ers and other peaks - heck, we have 14ers.com and other websites, full of information, to search. What about the mountaineers who went before us with only a map (or less), no descriptions available, no trip reports, no GPS coordinates?? Are we ashamed of pursuing our dreams and meeting our goals because the way is easier?? Are we belittling their accomplishments?? I think not.

My sense is you're burned by this perhaps because you'd like the opp'y to do alot more yourself. And it seems to be so easy for her to do that, based on the front page of this newspaper.


Well said. I probably am jealous because I'm not able to climb more than I am. If by putting "her" in bold you are insinuating I wouldn't think the same way if she was a man, that may be true also. Thanks for the replies. I wish her the best on her journey.
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Re: Everest Attempt

Postby Jim Davies » Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:18 pm

Don't forget that Hillary on Everest was supported by over 300 porters and climbing Sherpas, and was accompanied to the summit by the most experienced Everest veteran around at the time (7th expedition).

Around here, Everest attempts usually don't even make the local paper any more. Case in point: http://articles.outtherecolorado.com/articles/everest-662-charles-springs.html
I first heard about these two guys after they returned. I'm not sure it would have even made the CS Gazette if there hadn't been a bunch of deaths the same day.
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Re: Everest Attempt

Postby JB99 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:13 pm

ThuChad wrote:If by putting "her" in bold you are insinuating I wouldn't think the same way if she was a man, that may be true also.


I'm curious what difference it makes, to you and how you feel about it, that it's a female climber? (And make no mistake, someone who has climbed Denali and Cho Oyu, guided or not, is as much of a "climber" in their own right as 99% of the people who post here. Even though we live near mountains.)
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Re: Everest Attempt

Postby pvnisher » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:30 pm

JB99 wrote:make no mistake, someone who has climbed Denali and Cho Oyu, guided or not, is as much of a "climber" in their own right as 99% of the people who post here.


You couldn't be more wrong. Someone who has climbed Denali and Cho Oyu, guided or not, is far, far more of a climber than 99% of the people who post here.

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Re: Everest Attempt

Postby JB99 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:42 pm

Ha. That's true, pvnisher.

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Re: Everest Attempt

Postby Scott P » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:45 pm

It scares me to think there are less prepared people that attempt Everest.


Why does that scare you (or anyone else)? If you look at the fatality statistics, guided climbers on Everest actually have the best survival rate of anyone who climbs or ever has climbed the mountain.

From a statistical percentage, you are much more likely to die as an experienced/hard core climber on Everest than you are as a guided climber (because you climb riskier routes, seasons, and styles).

One recommended book to read that demonstrates this point well would by The Boys of Everest by Clint Willis. It's perhaps not as "exciting" as Into Thin Air, but it is a good book.

It is about a group of climbers (known as the Bonington Boys) that went out to push the limits in Himalayan climbing over a period of about 15 years. They did indeed change the limits of Himalayan climbing, but the survival rate was very low. They weren’t killed out at once, but were picked off one or two at a time on different climbs.

Ian Clough died on Annapurna in 1970. Mick Burke died on Everest in 1975. Nick Escort was lost in 1978 on K2. Peter Boardman and Joe Tasker were lost on Everest in 1982. Al Rouse on K2 in 1985. (Dougal Haston actually died in the Alps in 1977).

Doug Scott and Bonington survived.

The point to all this is that the guided climbers that are on Everest now days have the highest survival rate of any climbers in the history of the mountain. If death is what is worried about, the experienced climbers who push the limits are the ones to worry about the most.
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Re: Everest Attempt

Postby Dave B » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:39 pm

Mark Twight has some searing words on this topic,

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2013/01/what-cheaters-have-done-to-us.html

Thesis: supplemental oxygen on 8000 meter peaks is the equivalent of doping, doping is the equivalent of cheating.
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Re: Everest Attempt

Postby gearhunter » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:52 pm

Twight is an arrogant elitist.

By his same measure he should stop taking Fish Oil, using Creatine, and Protein Powder because they should be considered the same as using Steroids to boost the body's performance. Twight shouldn't be calling anyone out for integrity seeing that he ripped off Crossfit methodologies and used them to create his own business. Pot meet Kettle.

I find it funny he even feels the need to comment on a commercial guided ascent of Everest. He must somehow feel his own greatness is threatened by the personal climbing goals of others.
Last edited by gearhunter on Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Everest Attempt

Postby I Man » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:57 pm

gearhunter wrote:Twight is an arrogant elitist.


This is very true, but most at his level are. Twight's "Extreme Alpinism" guidebook is the single best climbing manual I have come across.
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