College vs skilled trades. What's your take?

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pvnisher
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Re: College vs skilled trades. What's your take?

Post by pvnisher » Sat May 15, 2021 4:54 pm

Dave B wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 6:29 am
SchralpTheGnar wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 8:17 pm
The Venn diagram overlap between what makes a good engineer and what makes a good manager is small.
The Venn diagram overlap between people in general and what makes a good manager is small. Too many people get promoted to leadership positions simply based off performing non-management tasks well.
I'd say too many people get promoted because their personalities go along with the person making the hiring or promotion decision and they're in the same social circle.

I've seen more people get promoted because they go to the same bar and strip club (for example) with the management than get promoted on merit.
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Conor
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Re: College vs skilled trades. What's your take?

Post by Conor » Sun May 16, 2021 7:40 am

If there were only a bunch of college educated people sitting at the top of the middle class to tell me to ignore what they did. Where would i find them??

In terms of lesdership positions, ive found there are certain qualities one should desire. 1) know someone. Father in law best, uncle/aunt next, coatails work too. 2) be lucky. Be in the right place at the right time. 3) be smooth talking. 4) hard work. 5) intelligence.
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Re: College vs skilled trades. What's your take?

Post by Dave B » Sun May 16, 2021 9:59 am

Conor wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 7:40 am
If there were only a bunch of college educated people sitting at the top of the middle class to tell me to ignore what they did. Where would i find them??

In terms of lesdership positions, ive found there are certain qualities one should desire. 1) know someone. Father in law best, uncle/aunt next, coatails work too. 2) be lucky. Be in the right place at the right time. 3) be smooth talking. 4) hard work. 5) intelligence.
Damn, y'all emeffers work for some crooked ass nepotistic companies.
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Re: College vs skilled trades. What's your take?

Post by pvnisher » Sun May 16, 2021 6:16 pm

Dave B wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 9:59 am
Conor wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 7:40 am

In terms of lesdership positions, ive found there are certain qualities one should desire. 1) know someone. Father in law best, uncle/aunt next, coatails work too. 2) be lucky. Be in the right place at the right time. 3) be smooth talking. 4) hard work. 5) intelligence.
Damn, y'all emeffers work for some crooked ass nepotistic companies.
It doesn't have to be family, but the personal recommendation, coat tails, old boys club is by far the most important qualification for any middle management and above position.

#1 and#2 account for 75 percent of it, and #3 is a good way to be liked and viewed as a good manager.
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Re: College vs skilled trades. What's your take?

Post by ker0uac » Mon May 17, 2021 12:04 pm

pvnisher wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 6:16 pm
Dave B wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 9:59 am
Conor wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 7:40 am

In terms of lesdership positions, ive found there are certain qualities one should desire. 1) know someone. Father in law best, uncle/aunt next, coatails work too. 2) be lucky. Be in the right place at the right time. 3) be smooth talking. 4) hard work. 5) intelligence.
Damn, y'all emeffers work for some crooked ass nepotistic companies.
It doesn't have to be family, but the personal recommendation, coat tails, old boys club is by far the most important qualification for any middle management and above position.

#1 and#2 account for 75 percent of it, and #3 is a good way to be liked and viewed as a good manager.
I agree, but I also think it makes sense regardless whether it's fair (except nepotism, but I think that's a small factor). All is fair in love, war and business. Having a network gives you credibility. You don't follow those you know nothing about.

I once heard a CEO say he didn't need to know the business, he just needed to know how to build and lead high-performing teams who actually know the business. I draw a parallel to team sports. Let's say the Patriots, how much of their success do you attribute to Bill Bellichick? He never played professionally. He has no idea what's like to start a NFL game. How can he coach players to do something he's never done himself? Do you need to have played elite football to understand and coach elite football? Could the Pats have won 6 SBs with any other coach?
Those who travel to mountain-tops are half in love with themselves and half in love with oblivion
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Re: College vs skilled trades. What's your take?

Post by SchralpTheGnar » Mon May 17, 2021 12:20 pm

Go Pats!!
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Re: College vs skilled trades. What's your take?

Post by 12ersRule » Mon May 17, 2021 12:59 pm

ker0uac wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 12:04 pm
Could the Pats have won 6 SBs with any other coach?
Based on the fact that the Bucs just won with a supposedly washed up version of the QB that got them all those wins, hells yes.
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Re: College vs skilled trades. What's your take?

Post by climbingcue » Mon May 17, 2021 1:14 pm

Dave B wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 6:29 am
SchralpTheGnar wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 8:17 pm
The Venn diagram overlap between what makes a good engineer and what makes a good manager is small.
The Venn diagram overlap between people in general and what makes a good manager is small. Too many people get promoted to leadership positions simply based off performing non-management tasks well. Peter principle.

But, seeing as I can't let a good opportunity to rag on engineers go to waste: engineers seem to be even worse at it.
My old company only hired engineers and then they were all promoted to managers. I was with that company for 16 years, and the number of good managers that came from an engineering background was less than 2%. Engineers make terrible managers in all most all cases. A managers only job is to give their people the tools they need to do their job. So understanding people, knowing how to deal with them and keeping them on task and motivated.
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