Climate Change

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Climate change:

is happening and is a direct consequence of industrialism and overpopulation over the last 200yrs and if we do nothing, humans are going to live in dramatically different, inhospitable conditions over the next 200yrs, think Mad Max
80
69%
is happening and is just a natural cycle of the earth and environment, will happen again once we are long gone, and possibly not much we can do about it except maybe at the margin
19
16%
is likely happening and we just currently lack sufficient information over a long enough period to draw an accurate conclusion of the extent that humans have possibly impacted its potential acceleration
14
12%
is Hogwash, what climate change? It's the media and politicians trying to scare us or sway votes and public opinion. EVs? I don't even like charging my phone.
3
3%
 
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Bale
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Re: Climate Change

Post by Bale »

KerO, Scott P and I have lived first-hand with Utah hypocrisy on many levels for most of our lives, but thanks for enlightening us with a Google search.
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey
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Re: Climate Change

Post by ker0uac »

cottonmountaineering wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:52 pm the senate requires 60 votes to get anything substantial done

wyoming has equal say as california in the senate

this might be a good read for you as well, just an example of how first past the post voting is broken

https://www.npr.org/2016/11/02/50011224 ... pular-vote
Ok that's a valid point but it's more of a commentary on our systems of government. It is important to correctly identify the problem instead of defaulting to blaming the other side for everything.

In Portland, polls show that over 70% of the population is against defunding the police and yet the major did do away with lots of police units and slashed their budget.
Those who travel to mountain-tops are half in love with themselves and half in love with oblivion
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Re: Climate Change

Post by ker0uac »

Bale wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:05 pm Cherry picking, lol. I have heard so much fuking cherry picking from the right, and worse from the right that insists they are “independent” (those are some real hypocrites there), it would make your head spin. Look, bottom line is that at least one side admits GW is happening, neither side is doing anything substantial to fix it, and we are screwed. Sadly, the humans on this earth least responsible will be affected the earliest and worst. Enjoy the ride!
I think we aren't doing anything to educate the portion of the population who perhaps aren't as educated as others. Instead, those who aren't on your side get insulted and humiliated. And then, ya'll wonder why the country is divided. It is easy for a 20-something year old college grad to believe in climate change. Not so much for a 55yr old plumber in Alabama. Until we understand that we will never make any progress.

If you want to help, maybe next time u interact w one of those ppl, instead of insulting them, try to respectfully educate them. Plant a few seeds in their minds.
Those who travel to mountain-tops are half in love with themselves and half in love with oblivion
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Re: Climate Change

Post by Bale »

ker0uac wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:45 pm
Bale wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:05 pm Cherry picking, lol. I have heard so much fuking cherry picking from the right, and worse from the right that insists they are “independent” (those are some real hypocrites there), it would make your head spin. Look, bottom line is that at least one side admits GW is happening, neither side is doing anything substantial to fix it, and we are screwed. Sadly, the humans on this earth least responsible will be affected the earliest and worst. Enjoy the ride!
I think we aren't doing anything to educate the portion of the population who perhaps aren't as educated as others. Instead, those who aren't on your side get insulted and humiliated. And then, ya'll wonder why the country is divided. It is easy for a 20-something year old college grad to believe in climate change. Not so much for a 55yr old plumber in Alabama. Until we understand that we will never make any progress.

If you want to help, maybe next time u interact w one of those ppl, instead of insulting them, try to respectfully educate them. Plant a few seeds in their minds.
That is sound advice. Your cherry picking comment really struck a nerve. If we ever share a beer I’ll tell you some stories:)
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey
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Re: Climate Change

Post by cottonmountaineering »

ker0uac wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:45 pm
Bale wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:05 pm Cherry picking, lol. I have heard so much fuking cherry picking from the right, and worse from the right that insists they are “independent” (those are some real hypocrites there), it would make your head spin. Look, bottom line is that at least one side admits GW is happening, neither side is doing anything substantial to fix it, and we are screwed. Sadly, the humans on this earth least responsible will be affected the earliest and worst. Enjoy the ride!
I think we aren't doing anything to educate the portion of the population who perhaps aren't as educated as others. Instead, those who aren't on your side get insulted and humiliated. And then, ya'll wonder why the country is divided. It is easy for a 20-something year old college grad to believe in climate change. Not so much for a 55yr old plumber in Alabama. Until we understand that we will never make any progress.

If you want to help, maybe next time u interact w one of those ppl, instead of insulting them, try to respectfully educate them. Plant a few seeds in their minds.
it doesnt matter if they believe it or not, facts are facts. people are frustrated because we've known the effects of introducing carbon to the atmosphere for over a century and at this point its like debating if the earth is round.
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Re: Climate Change

Post by ker0uac »

cottonmountaineering wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:36 pm
ker0uac wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:45 pm
Bale wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:05 pm Cherry picking, lol. I have heard so much fuking cherry picking from the right, and worse from the right that insists they are “independent” (those are some real hypocrites there), it would make your head spin. Look, bottom line is that at least one side admits GW is happening, neither side is doing anything substantial to fix it, and we are screwed. Sadly, the humans on this earth least responsible will be affected the earliest and worst. Enjoy the ride!
I think we aren't doing anything to educate the portion of the population who perhaps aren't as educated as others. Instead, those who aren't on your side get insulted and humiliated. And then, ya'll wonder why the country is divided. It is easy for a 20-something year old college grad to believe in climate change. Not so much for a 55yr old plumber in Alabama. Until we understand that we will never make any progress.

If you want to help, maybe next time u interact w one of those ppl, instead of insulting them, try to respectfully educate them. Plant a few seeds in their minds.
it doesnt matter if they believe it or not, facts are facts. people are frustrated because we've known the effects of introducing carbon to the atmosphere for over a century and at this point its like debating if the earth is round.
Who is "we"? Maybe you know. You are probably well educated. Or you grew up in a household that encouraged intellectual exploration. Or you hung out in social circles of ppl of high intellect. Whatever the case may be, you come from a privileged position intellectually and culturally speaking. There r ppl who didn't have access to the resources needed to develop critical thinking. Or to know the facts as you say.. You cant hate or blame a coal miner for being a denier when he didnt do anything but be born in an environment that kept him from being as intellectually and culturally advanced as you. There are plenty of blue collar white conservative people out there who are good humans and deserve just as much the compassion and tolerance that we reserve for all the minorities in this country. Just last night I saw a guy walking outside alone while wearing a mask. Science has spoken on the issue but hes not convinced. I felt sorry for him coz hes definitely the fruit of consistent fearmongering and unfortunately fell to the brainwashing. I blame the likes of CNN. For the deniers, I blame the political games that used climate change as a dividing issue to excite the base. Most progress in this country isn't pushed by politicians. No issue that is part of the platform of either country will ever be solved. Doing so is not in the best interest of political parties. I believe the reason weed is becoming a non-issue is bc it was never publicly pushed in either direction by political parties. Over time the population has been coming around on its own in favor of weed.
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Re: Climate Change

Post by Scott P »

ker0uac wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:12 pm You cant hate or blame a coal miner for being a denier when he didnt do anything but be born in an environment that kept him from being as intellectually and culturally advanced as you.
Sorry, but that's a bunch of crap. I worked at a coal mine for several years. Most miners work in a coal mine because it pays well, has excellent benefits, and they don't have to get an education. The (unionized) coal mine I worked at paid most of the miners $80,000-$100,000 a year (with full benefits) to drive a truck, run a dragline, loader, etc. (though in other parts of the country they pay less). The benefits at coal mines are outstanding (13% match on retirement, 100% paid health insurance, lots of vacation, etc.). That's a lot more money and benefits than most college graduates make so they don't see a need to get an education. In fact many don't bother finishing high school. Also, they don't have to work that hard either and the past days of a coal miner with a pick and shovel are long gone. It's also really hard to get fired since the union makes the company retain even sub-par employees. Someone I worked with almost killed someone through negligence and when he was fired the union made the company bring him back. The only people who got fired was one person who hit a powerline and in addition wrecked a four million dollar truck while going 62 mph in a 15 mph zone, and a person who murdered someone. So in other words, before very recent years the job security was really stable.

The miners in most towns aren't forced to work there, they choose to for those reasons. The attitude among most is "why go to college and spend the money on college only to go make less money and have fewer benefits?". No one is born into coal mining or forced to work there. With the wages they make they could easily afford college (in fact the mines often pay for their children's college). Most just don't see the need.

The problem comes when the mines shut down and you have a lot of uneducated (usually by choice) people that are used to making $80,000-$100,000 a year and still want to maintain their lifestyle. This article is seven years old, but it's even more true now:

https://www.hcn.org/blogs/goat/80-000-a ... ining-jobs
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Re: Climate Change

Post by Bale »

Sweet Jesus KerO, I’m trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but we’re talking about the Earth burning up here and you feel sorry for a guy wearing a mask because he’s brainwashed by CNN?!
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey
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Re: Climate Change

Post by Bale »

Man Scott, you have more crazy stories than I do from my machining days. Did you work in one of those mines near Price?
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey
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Re: Climate Change

Post by Conor »

ker0uac wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:45 pm
Bale wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:05 pm Cherry picking, lol. I have heard so much fuking cherry picking from the right, and worse from the right that insists they are “independent” (those are some real hypocrites there), it would make your head spin. Look, bottom line is that at least one side admits GW is happening, neither side is doing anything substantial to fix it, and we are screwed. Sadly, the humans on this earth least responsible will be affected the earliest and worst. Enjoy the ride!
I think we aren't doing anything to educate the portion of the population who perhaps aren't as educated as others. Instead, those who aren't on your side get insulted and humiliated. And then, ya'll wonder why the country is divided. It is easy for a 20-something year old college grad to believe in climate change. Not so much for a 55yr old plumber in Alabama. Until we understand that we will never make any progress.

If you want to help, maybe next time u interact w one of those ppl, instead of insulting them, try to respectfully educate them. Plant a few seeds in their minds.
An insult can also exist in the form of elitism.
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Re: Climate Change

Post by Dave B »

ker0uac wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:12 pmJust last night I saw a guy walking outside alone while wearing a mask. Science has spoken on the issue but hes not convinced. I felt sorry for him coz hes definitely the fruit of consistent fearmongering and unfortunately fell to the brainwashing. I blame the likes of CNN.
CDC guidelines still recommend masks and social distancing for the unvaccinated. Did you ask if he was vaccinated or just assume he was a brainwashed CNN viewer? Perhaps you should give this person the benefit of the doubt and offer them some respect instead of judging them based off an assumption from a chance encounter that lasted no more than a few seconds.

Elitism can go both directions.
Last edited by Dave B on Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Climate Change

Post by painless4u2 »

Dave B wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:20 am
ker0uac wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:12 pmJust last night I saw a guy walking outside alone while wearing a mask. Science has spoken on the issue but hes not convinced. I felt sorry for him coz hes definitely the fruit of consistent fearmongering and unfortunately fell to the brainwashing. I blame the likes of CNN.
CDC guidelines still recommend masks and social distancing for the unvaccinated. Did you ask if he was vaccinated or just assume he was a brainwashed CNN viewer? Perhaps you should give this person the benefit of the doubt and offer them some respect instead of judging them based on a chance encounter that lasted no more than a few seconds.

Elitism can go both directions.
So can absurd non-scientific thinking. He clearly stated the walker was outside and alone. Both of those parameters clearly would not require wearing a mask. Unless of course one was completely brainwashed, overwhelming their rational thinking. Just saying.
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