Climate Change
Forum rules
- This is a mountaineering forum, so please keep your posts on-topic. Posts do not all have to be related to the 14ers but should at least be mountaineering-related.
- Personal attacks and confrontational behavior will result in removal from the forum at the discretion of the administrators.
- Do not use this forum to advertise, sell photos or other products or promote a commercial website.
- Posts will be removed at the discretion of the site administrator or moderator(s), including: Troll posts, posts pushing political views or religious beliefs, and posts with the purpose of instigating conflict within the forum.
- Bale
- Posts: 266
- Joined: 6/9/2020
- Trip Reports (0)
Re: Climate Change
KerO, Scott P and I have lived first-hand with Utah hypocrisy on many levels for most of our lives, but thanks for enlightening us with a Google search.
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey
-
- Posts: 547
- Joined: 8/30/2016
- Trip Reports (0)
Re: Climate Change
Ok that's a valid point but it's more of a commentary on our systems of government. It is important to correctly identify the problem instead of defaulting to blaming the other side for everything.cottonmountaineering wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:52 pm the senate requires 60 votes to get anything substantial done
wyoming has equal say as california in the senate
this might be a good read for you as well, just an example of how first past the post voting is broken
https://www.npr.org/2016/11/02/50011224 ... pular-vote
In Portland, polls show that over 70% of the population is against defunding the police and yet the major did do away with lots of police units and slashed their budget.
Those who travel to mountain-tops are half in love with themselves and half in love with oblivion
-
- Posts: 547
- Joined: 8/30/2016
- Trip Reports (0)
Re: Climate Change
I think we aren't doing anything to educate the portion of the population who perhaps aren't as educated as others. Instead, those who aren't on your side get insulted and humiliated. And then, ya'll wonder why the country is divided. It is easy for a 20-something year old college grad to believe in climate change. Not so much for a 55yr old plumber in Alabama. Until we understand that we will never make any progress.Bale wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:05 pm Cherry picking, lol. I have heard so much fuking cherry picking from the right, and worse from the right that insists they are “independent” (those are some real hypocrites there), it would make your head spin. Look, bottom line is that at least one side admits GW is happening, neither side is doing anything substantial to fix it, and we are screwed. Sadly, the humans on this earth least responsible will be affected the earliest and worst. Enjoy the ride!
If you want to help, maybe next time u interact w one of those ppl, instead of insulting them, try to respectfully educate them. Plant a few seeds in their minds.
Those who travel to mountain-tops are half in love with themselves and half in love with oblivion
- Bale
- Posts: 266
- Joined: 6/9/2020
- Trip Reports (0)
Re: Climate Change
That is sound advice. Your cherry picking comment really struck a nerve. If we ever share a beer I’ll tell you some stories:)ker0uac wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:45 pmI think we aren't doing anything to educate the portion of the population who perhaps aren't as educated as others. Instead, those who aren't on your side get insulted and humiliated. And then, ya'll wonder why the country is divided. It is easy for a 20-something year old college grad to believe in climate change. Not so much for a 55yr old plumber in Alabama. Until we understand that we will never make any progress.Bale wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:05 pm Cherry picking, lol. I have heard so much fuking cherry picking from the right, and worse from the right that insists they are “independent” (those are some real hypocrites there), it would make your head spin. Look, bottom line is that at least one side admits GW is happening, neither side is doing anything substantial to fix it, and we are screwed. Sadly, the humans on this earth least responsible will be affected the earliest and worst. Enjoy the ride!
If you want to help, maybe next time u interact w one of those ppl, instead of insulting them, try to respectfully educate them. Plant a few seeds in their minds.
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey
- cottonmountaineering
- Posts: 849
- Joined: 5/11/2018
- 14ers: 58 7 18
- 13ers: 180 39 31
- Trip Reports (1)
Re: Climate Change
it doesnt matter if they believe it or not, facts are facts. people are frustrated because we've known the effects of introducing carbon to the atmosphere for over a century and at this point its like debating if the earth is round.ker0uac wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:45 pmI think we aren't doing anything to educate the portion of the population who perhaps aren't as educated as others. Instead, those who aren't on your side get insulted and humiliated. And then, ya'll wonder why the country is divided. It is easy for a 20-something year old college grad to believe in climate change. Not so much for a 55yr old plumber in Alabama. Until we understand that we will never make any progress.Bale wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:05 pm Cherry picking, lol. I have heard so much fuking cherry picking from the right, and worse from the right that insists they are “independent” (those are some real hypocrites there), it would make your head spin. Look, bottom line is that at least one side admits GW is happening, neither side is doing anything substantial to fix it, and we are screwed. Sadly, the humans on this earth least responsible will be affected the earliest and worst. Enjoy the ride!
If you want to help, maybe next time u interact w one of those ppl, instead of insulting them, try to respectfully educate them. Plant a few seeds in their minds.
-
- Posts: 547
- Joined: 8/30/2016
- Trip Reports (0)
Re: Climate Change
Who is "we"? Maybe you know. You are probably well educated. Or you grew up in a household that encouraged intellectual exploration. Or you hung out in social circles of ppl of high intellect. Whatever the case may be, you come from a privileged position intellectually and culturally speaking. There r ppl who didn't have access to the resources needed to develop critical thinking. Or to know the facts as you say.. You cant hate or blame a coal miner for being a denier when he didnt do anything but be born in an environment that kept him from being as intellectually and culturally advanced as you. There are plenty of blue collar white conservative people out there who are good humans and deserve just as much the compassion and tolerance that we reserve for all the minorities in this country. Just last night I saw a guy walking outside alone while wearing a mask. Science has spoken on the issue but hes not convinced. I felt sorry for him coz hes definitely the fruit of consistent fearmongering and unfortunately fell to the brainwashing. I blame the likes of CNN. For the deniers, I blame the political games that used climate change as a dividing issue to excite the base. Most progress in this country isn't pushed by politicians. No issue that is part of the platform of either country will ever be solved. Doing so is not in the best interest of political parties. I believe the reason weed is becoming a non-issue is bc it was never publicly pushed in either direction by political parties. Over time the population has been coming around on its own in favor of weed.cottonmountaineering wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:36 pmit doesnt matter if they believe it or not, facts are facts. people are frustrated because we've known the effects of introducing carbon to the atmosphere for over a century and at this point its like debating if the earth is round.ker0uac wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:45 pmI think we aren't doing anything to educate the portion of the population who perhaps aren't as educated as others. Instead, those who aren't on your side get insulted and humiliated. And then, ya'll wonder why the country is divided. It is easy for a 20-something year old college grad to believe in climate change. Not so much for a 55yr old plumber in Alabama. Until we understand that we will never make any progress.Bale wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:05 pm Cherry picking, lol. I have heard so much fuking cherry picking from the right, and worse from the right that insists they are “independent” (those are some real hypocrites there), it would make your head spin. Look, bottom line is that at least one side admits GW is happening, neither side is doing anything substantial to fix it, and we are screwed. Sadly, the humans on this earth least responsible will be affected the earliest and worst. Enjoy the ride!
If you want to help, maybe next time u interact w one of those ppl, instead of insulting them, try to respectfully educate them. Plant a few seeds in their minds.
Those who travel to mountain-tops are half in love with themselves and half in love with oblivion
Re: Climate Change
Sorry, but that's a bunch of crap. I worked at a coal mine for several years. Most miners work in a coal mine because it pays well, has excellent benefits, and they don't have to get an education. The (unionized) coal mine I worked at paid most of the miners $80,000-$100,000 a year (with full benefits) to drive a truck, run a dragline, loader, etc. (though in other parts of the country they pay less). The benefits at coal mines are outstanding (13% match on retirement, 100% paid health insurance, lots of vacation, etc.). That's a lot more money and benefits than most college graduates make so they don't see a need to get an education. In fact many don't bother finishing high school. Also, they don't have to work that hard either and the past days of a coal miner with a pick and shovel are long gone. It's also really hard to get fired since the union makes the company retain even sub-par employees. Someone I worked with almost killed someone through negligence and when he was fired the union made the company bring him back. The only people who got fired was one person who hit a powerline and in addition wrecked a four million dollar truck while going 62 mph in a 15 mph zone, and a person who murdered someone. So in other words, before very recent years the job security was really stable.
The miners in most towns aren't forced to work there, they choose to for those reasons. The attitude among most is "why go to college and spend the money on college only to go make less money and have fewer benefits?". No one is born into coal mining or forced to work there. With the wages they make they could easily afford college (in fact the mines often pay for their children's college). Most just don't see the need.
The problem comes when the mines shut down and you have a lot of uneducated (usually by choice) people that are used to making $80,000-$100,000 a year and still want to maintain their lifestyle. This article is seven years old, but it's even more true now:
https://www.hcn.org/blogs/goat/80-000-a ... ining-jobs
I'm old, slow and fat. Unfortunately, those are my good qualities.
- Bale
- Posts: 266
- Joined: 6/9/2020
- Trip Reports (0)
Re: Climate Change
Sweet Jesus KerO, I’m trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but we’re talking about the Earth burning up here and you feel sorry for a guy wearing a mask because he’s brainwashed by CNN?!
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey
- Bale
- Posts: 266
- Joined: 6/9/2020
- Trip Reports (0)
Re: Climate Change
Man Scott, you have more crazy stories than I do from my machining days. Did you work in one of those mines near Price?
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey
Re: Climate Change
An insult can also exist in the form of elitism.ker0uac wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:45 pmI think we aren't doing anything to educate the portion of the population who perhaps aren't as educated as others. Instead, those who aren't on your side get insulted and humiliated. And then, ya'll wonder why the country is divided. It is easy for a 20-something year old college grad to believe in climate change. Not so much for a 55yr old plumber in Alabama. Until we understand that we will never make any progress.Bale wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:05 pm Cherry picking, lol. I have heard so much fuking cherry picking from the right, and worse from the right that insists they are “independent” (those are some real hypocrites there), it would make your head spin. Look, bottom line is that at least one side admits GW is happening, neither side is doing anything substantial to fix it, and we are screwed. Sadly, the humans on this earth least responsible will be affected the earliest and worst. Enjoy the ride!
If you want to help, maybe next time u interact w one of those ppl, instead of insulting them, try to respectfully educate them. Plant a few seeds in their minds.
- Dave B
- Posts: 2398
- Joined: 6/14/2010
- Trip Reports (9)
Re: Climate Change
CDC guidelines still recommend masks and social distancing for the unvaccinated. Did you ask if he was vaccinated or just assume he was a brainwashed CNN viewer? Perhaps you should give this person the benefit of the doubt and offer them some respect instead of judging them based off an assumption from a chance encounter that lasted no more than a few seconds.ker0uac wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:12 pmJust last night I saw a guy walking outside alone while wearing a mask. Science has spoken on the issue but hes not convinced. I felt sorry for him coz hes definitely the fruit of consistent fearmongering and unfortunately fell to the brainwashing. I blame the likes of CNN.
Elitism can go both directions.
Last edited by Dave B on Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Make wilderness less accessible.
- painless4u2
- Posts: 1298
- Joined: 7/14/2010
- 14ers: 58
- Trip Reports (8)
Re: Climate Change
So can absurd non-scientific thinking. He clearly stated the walker was outside and alone. Both of those parameters clearly would not require wearing a mask. Unless of course one was completely brainwashed, overwhelming their rational thinking. Just saying.Dave B wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:20 amCDC guidelines still recommend masks and social distancing for the unvaccinated. Did you ask if he was vaccinated or just assume he was a brainwashed CNN viewer? Perhaps you should give this person the benefit of the doubt and offer them some respect instead of judging them based on a chance encounter that lasted no more than a few seconds.ker0uac wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:12 pmJust last night I saw a guy walking outside alone while wearing a mask. Science has spoken on the issue but hes not convinced. I felt sorry for him coz hes definitely the fruit of consistent fearmongering and unfortunately fell to the brainwashing. I blame the likes of CNN.
Elitism can go both directions.
Bad decisions often make good stories.
IPAs + Ambien = "14ers" post (Bill M.)
In their hearts humans plan their course, but the Lord establishes their steps. Proverbs 16:9
IPAs + Ambien = "14ers" post (Bill M.)
In their hearts humans plan their course, but the Lord establishes their steps. Proverbs 16:9