Bad Experiences in the Backcountry

[JROSKA]

I’ve never experienced something quite this extreme. However, in October 2015 in unexpected dry conditions I was headed to do Harvard as a day hike with a friend, and as we headed up the road to the TH, we were slowed behind a pickup truck. Just as we were contemplating passing, he pulled over sideways, in the middle of the road, purposely blocking our path. He stood to the left of his vehicle, glaring at us, guarding that way around. It took some creative maneuvering, not much space but we were just able to squeeze by on the right but he clearly seemed to be attempting to create a confrontation.

I could of course be wrong but my assumption on this type of behavior (and also what the OP & a few others have witnessed) is that it represents simple-minded, old-fashioned locals who are bitter that so many folks are in the mountains these days. They want to make things unpleasant and uncomfortable with the hope that they can discourage visitors from coming back. If the experience they create is traumatic enough, maybe the subject will return to the city and never come back to their territory.

Personally if I lived in the backcountry I’d try to be welcoming to visitors as I see it as helpful to the state / local economy. As a native Wisconsinite we deal with this every summer with Illinois residents taking over our state, it’s tempting to be mean and hostile to them but that’s short-sighted. Tourism is a good thing. Lots of folks are invading Colorado now but the alternative is to be Nebraska, Kansas or Wyoming.

Anyways that’s my thought, that what I witnessed in 2015 and most of the other stuff documented here just represents that unwelcoming, stay away from these parts, don’t come back, mentality.

[oldschool]

I am conflicted about my feelings on this but here it goes....

I am only speaking about how I would handle situations such as have been posted here.

In many areas of my life I have come to this conclusion...."that which is accepted continues". To me that means behavior that is allowed to happen, without consequences and/or accountability for such behavior, shall continue to happen. There is zero reason for the OP people that did what they did to change in any way if no consequences take place.

I understand that for some (most?) fear enters into the picture. For me it doesn't. Yes, the ass hat's that are occasionally found in the back country, as well as in the front country, can be on substances, be carrying guns, can be scary, and a myriad of other possible issues, and violence may indeed ensue. Conflict is never sought out by me yet I will also not be "victimized" by some ass hat. I will always choose to stand my ground.

One of the reasons (IMO) that this type of behavior happens is it again is allowed to happen, in some cases over and over again. Perpetrators will continue to behave in such manners.

I have seen and been involved in situations such as have been posted here on this thread. I chose to stand my ground. I will always do so.

Mike

[nyker]

I actually just remembered an odd / scary encounter I had on Antero in summer 2009.

Looking back on my log, starting out as I usually did then from the low TH and at ~ 3:30 am to avoid the Tstorms that were pretty regular then, after about an hour I was startled by a guy yelling/mumbling but wasn't sure it was directed at me... A bit unnerving at 4:30am in an otherwise quiet darkness in the night. As he moved across the rubble, he then sure enough came walking towards me yelling me to "get away from here" and "stop stealing from him"....and carried a shotgun. While I sort of expect the unexpected on these peaks, this was a little unsettling.

Now before you think he was a nut, in hindsight, it sort of makes sense from his non-mountaineering viewpoint given the context ( though at the time I was a little freaked out).

What was that context?

Here I was, some strange guy on a mountain in the middle of the night, and at the time, I almost always carried an ice axe with me after running into some unexpected snow slopes during a few summer climbs.
And as it was dark, I had a headlamp on like is customary on alpine starts and black wool type hat (nights were still cool).
Antero is well known mining mountain, particularly for aquamarine.
Turns out (so he said) he owned some mining claims in the area.
He thought I was "sneaking" around in the darkness so nobody would see me, to steal and mine aquamarine and was planning on teaching me a lesson.
Of course from his perspective, I was there in the middle of the night, black jacket and black cap, I had a mining pick (ice axe, but in the heat of the moment in the dark it looks like same), and I had what appeared to be a miners headlamp AND a pack to carry my bounty in!

After some explaining to him that I was in fact just a simple hiker climbing to the summit....he eventually lowered the barrel of the shotgun and moved on.

[dan0rama]

See, that's why I think we did a disservice to the new generation when we banned bullying in schools. Now kids can't deal with assholes, and those assholes feel empowered every time they get away with bullying. You could have taken a picture of his car and plate and posted here under a fake account.

I personally wouldn't have tried to park in a pullout with others camping there already. I don't think his attitude is justified much less his threats. But I can see that you justifying your decision by saying your car can't go further up the road as infuriating to him. That's your problem to solve and not his.

[cedica]

See, that's why I think we did a disservice to the new generation when we banned bullying in schools.

I actually thought that OP's description of that guy matches almost half of my middle school teachers.

[timisimaginary]

See, that's why I think we did a disservice to the new generation when we banned bullying in schools. Now kids can't deal with assholes, and those assholes feel empowered every time they get away with bullying.

people feel empowered when they get away with bullying, therefore we shouldn't ban bullying. that's an... interesting take.

[mtn_hound]

See, that's why I think we did a disservice to the new generation when we banned bullying in schools. Now kids can't deal with assholes, and those assholes feel empowered every time they get away with bullying.

people feel empowered when they get away with bullying, therefore we shouldn't ban bullying. that's an... interesting take.

Pressure makes diamonds, not hugs

[dan0rama]

See, that's why I think we did a disservice to the new generation when we banned bullying in schools. Now kids can't deal with assholes, and those assholes feel empowered every time they get away with bullying.

people feel empowered when they get away with bullying, therefore we shouldn't ban bullying. that's an... interesting take.

We didn't eradicate bullying from society. We simply denied kids the chance to learn how to deal with bullies in school. World is tough and competitive and school should prepare you for that, but Chris Rock said it better.

[timisimaginary]

See, that's why I think we did a disservice to the new generation when we banned bullying in schools. Now kids can't deal with assholes, and those assholes feel empowered every time they get away with bullying.

people feel empowered when they get away with bullying, therefore we shouldn't ban bullying. that's an... interesting take.

We didn't eradicate bullying from society. We simply denied kids the chance to learn how to deal with bullies in school. World is tough and competitive and school should prepare you for that, but Chris Rock said it better.

i dunno, seems like teaching kids they can bully other kids without consequences isn't the best way to prepare them for adulthood. i'd rather see schools prepare us for dealing with assholes by turning out fewer assholes.
i grew up in the 80s when there was plenty of bullying in school and not a lot of effort to stop it. it didn't create a generation prepared to deal with assholes. it created people who either learned to be victims because they were too weak to fight back and no one else would help them, or to become assholes themselves once they finally became big or strong enough to defend themselves. in some cases it created dead kids because they felt hopeless about a situation they couldn't escape.

but hey, if you make it out of school without developing mental health issues, lower self-esteem and higher aggression levels, killing yourself, or getting shot by some other kid who finally learned how to "deal with assholes", then maybe you'll know what to do the next time some rando yells at you for camping too close.

studies reliably show that bullying only creates more violent, mentally unstable, depressed or suicidal kids. but hey, f**k science, right? let's listen to the comedian instead.

[Cide]

Sorry you had that experience OP. I'm not sure where people get off that that is ok. Not in a bad manners sense but anyone you F with could have A) A gun B) A knife C) No more Fs to give that day, so brazen and suggests substance use bc most people have no committment to being so bold over something so petty.

[dan0rama]

people feel empowered when they get away with bullying, therefore we shouldn't ban bullying. that's an... interesting take.

We didn't eradicate bullying from society. We simply denied kids the chance to learn how to deal with bullies in school. World is tough and competitive and school should prepare you for that, but Chris Rock said it better.

i dunno, seems like teaching kids they can bully other kids without consequences isn't the best way to prepare them for adulthood. i'd rather see schools prepare us for dealing with assholes by turning out fewer assholes.
i grew up in the 80s when there was plenty of bullying in school and not a lot of effort to stop it. it didn't create a generation prepared to deal with assholes. it created people who either learned to be victims because they were too weak to fight back and no one else would help them, or to become assholes themselves once they finally became big or strong enough to defend themselves. in some cases it created dead kids because they felt hopeless about a situation they couldn't escape.

but hey, if you make it out of school without developing mental health issues, lower self-esteem and higher aggression levels, killing yourself, or getting shot by some other kid who finally learned how to "deal with assholes", then maybe you'll know what to do the next time some rando yells at you for camping too close.

studies reliably show that bullying only creates more violent, mentally unstable, depressed or suicidal kids. but hey, f**k science, right? let's listen to the comedian instead.

You make good points and we are not in diametrically opposed sides of this issue. In general, I think helicopter parenting is the wrong answer. I don't have the right answer, and I am not saying schools should operate like the wild west either.

I'd say in the 80s, schools somewhat reflected the real world. So you learned from an early age what the world will be like. Nowadays, schools are different but the world isn't. Nothing has changed. We simply now put kids in a bubble before throwing them out to the lions.

[timisimaginary]

We didn't eradicate bullying from society. We simply denied kids the chance to learn how to deal with bullies in school. World is tough and competitive and school should prepare you for that, but Chris Rock said it better.

i dunno, seems like teaching kids they can bully other kids without consequences isn't the best way to prepare them for adulthood. i'd rather see schools prepare us for dealing with assholes by turning out fewer assholes.
i grew up in the 80s when there was plenty of bullying in school and not a lot of effort to stop it. it didn't create a generation prepared to deal with assholes. it created people who either learned to be victims because they were too weak to fight back and no one else would help them, or to become assholes themselves once they finally became big or strong enough to defend themselves. in some cases it created dead kids because they felt hopeless about a situation they couldn't escape.

but hey, if you make it out of school without developing mental health issues, lower self-esteem and higher aggression levels, killing yourself, or getting shot by some other kid who finally learned how to "deal with assholes", then maybe you'll know what to do the next time some rando yells at you for camping too close.

studies reliably show that bullying only creates more violent, mentally unstable, depressed or suicidal kids. but hey, f**k science, right? let's listen to the comedian instead.

You make good points and we are not in diametrically opposed sides of this issue. In general, I think helicopter parenting is the wrong answer. I don't have the right answer, and I am not saying schools should operate like the wild west either.

I'd say in the 80s, schools somewhat reflected the real world. So you learned from an early age what the world will be like. Nowadays, schools are different but the world isn't. Nothing has changed. We simply now put kids in a bubble before throwing them out to the lions.

i think what it comes down to for me is, there are two ways to deal with bullies/assholes/etc. either you deal with them yourself as an individual, or collectively as a group. dealing with them individually basically means leaving kids on their own to deal with them, and when i think back to my school days, the kids who got picked on the most were the ones least able to defend themselves. that's how bullies operate, they pick out the weakest and most vulnerable to go after. if someone stands up to the bully, they don't stop bullying, they just move on to an easier target. in my school, the ones who got the worst bullying were Special Ed kids, who weren't mentally or emotionally equipped to handle it. it's just too much for any kid to deal with alone, let alone the ones with those kinds of challenges.

that's when you need the group to step in and deal with the problem collectively. kids need to know that, when they are being threatened or bullied, they can go to a parent or teacher or someone who can help them. it's too much to expect kids to learn how to handle those situations by themselves, and i don't think it requires "helicopter parenting" to provide help to a kid who needs it. the whole point of school is being a place where the adults teach the kids, not where the kids just figure things out on their own. that applies beyond just history or math. i would want kids to learn to reach out for help when they need help. you won't always get help when you need it later in life, but you're more likely to fix your problems if you ask for help than by always going it alone.

i don't know whether or how different schools are now, but it seems like the better/wealthier the school district, the more insulated or "bubble"-like it is. lower-income kids who go to city schools definitely aren't being insulated from the real world. the conditions in those schools, the crime and drugs and violence, doesn't seem to be helping much to prepare them much for post-school life.