Bad Experiences in the Backcountry

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12ersRule
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Re: Bad Experiences in the Backcountry

Post by 12ersRule »

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nyker
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Re: Bad Experiences in the Backcountry

Post by nyker »

timisimaginary wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:18 pm
dan0rama wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:12 pm
timisimaginary wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:14 am

i dunno, seems like teaching kids they can bully other kids without consequences isn't the best way to prepare them for adulthood. i'd rather see schools prepare us for dealing with assholes by turning out fewer assholes.
i grew up in the 80s when there was plenty of bullying in school and not a lot of effort to stop it. it didn't create a generation prepared to deal with assholes. it created people who either learned to be victims because they were too weak to fight back and no one else would help them, or to become assholes themselves once they finally became big or strong enough to defend themselves. in some cases it created dead kids because they felt hopeless about a situation they couldn't escape.

but hey, if you make it out of school without developing mental health issues, lower self-esteem and higher aggression levels, killing yourself, or getting shot by some other kid who finally learned how to "deal with assholes", then maybe you'll know what to do the next time some rando yells at you for camping too close.

studies reliably show that bullying only creates more violent, mentally unstable, depressed or suicidal kids. but hey, f**k science, right? let's listen to the comedian instead.
You make good points and we are not in diametrically opposed sides of this issue. In general, I think helicopter parenting is the wrong answer. I don't have the right answer, and I am not saying schools should operate like the wild west either.

I'd say in the 80s, schools somewhat reflected the real world. So you learned from an early age what the world will be like. Nowadays, schools are different but the world isn't. Nothing has changed. We simply now put kids in a bubble before throwing them out to the lions.
i think what it comes down to for me is, there are two ways to deal with bullies/assholes/etc. either you deal with them yourself as an individual, or collectively as a group. dealing with them individually basically means leaving kids on their own to deal with them, and when i think back to my school days, the kids who got picked on the most were the ones least able to defend themselves. that's how bullies operate, they pick out the weakest and most vulnerable to go after. if someone stands up to the bully, they don't stop bullying, they just move on to an easier target. in my school, the ones who got the worst bullying were Special Ed kids, who weren't mentally or emotionally equipped to handle it. it's just too much for any kid to deal with alone, let alone the ones with those kinds of challenges.

that's when you need the group to step in and deal with the problem collectively. kids need to know that, when they are being threatened or bullied, they can go to a parent or teacher or someone who can help them. it's too much to expect kids to learn how to handle those situations by themselves, and i don't think it requires "helicopter parenting" to provide help to a kid who needs it. the whole point of school is being a place where the adults teach the kids, not where the kids just figure things out on their own. that applies beyond just history or math. i would want kids to learn to reach out for help when they need help. you won't always get help when you need it later in life, but you're more likely to fix your problems if you ask for help than by always going it alone.

i don't know whether or how different schools are now, but it seems like the better/wealthier the school district, the more insulated or "bubble"-like it is. lower-income kids who go to city schools definitely aren't being insulated from the real world. the conditions in those schools, the crime and drugs and violence, doesn't seem to be helping much to prepare them much for post-school life.
Yea, schools are definitely all not created equal. The sad fact is many times, kids won't tell their parents if something is bothering them, they often internalize it, then if it gets worse could withdraw or start to act out in other ways. It's also not as easy to just deal with the bully...to your point, bullies pick on those most unable to fight back - the problem also with fighting back is if a kid makes a stand and the bully at that moment stands down, often, that bully with six of his friends are waiting for that kid after school and then it gets worse for the kid. This is dating myself way back but in junior high school, we had a spot between two schools in a field in little depression between grassy knolls, called "over the hill" sheltered from prying eyes where people would gather to fight if challenged. If you didn't accept a challenge, life at school was hard for you until you did or the bullies lost interest. Local police got wise to it eventually and managed to start patrolling it Fri and Say nights when most individual fights or gangs would gather and have a "rumble"...does that still happen? The best way to deal with bullies back then was somehow to win their respect but not embarrass them in front of their friends, or have a mutual friend vouch for you/ get in the middle, easier said then done in the teen years. Back then people at school didn't carry guns, but more had knives, bats or just honed street-fighting skills. Before I was old enough to have my drivers license, I wasn't allowed to go fishing alone until I had several months of Karate classes at the town dojo under my belt, no pun intended. Am sure it didn't do much in reality if someone much larger was intent on getting me while fishing, but it made my parents feel a little better, in addition to a hunting knife and pepper spray I'd carry just in case.
Today, I can't imagine how hard it is for kids, boys and girls with pressures from social media and how that impacts them, after reading about suicides as a result of FB or Insta posts.
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Re: Bad Experiences in the Backcountry

Post by Wildernessjane »

My friend and I were literally chased down by some guys when we were on our way to sleep at a remote trailhead one time. Turned out they just wanted to see if we had any weed on us but it was a little bit scary at the time.
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Re: Bad Experiences in the Backcountry

Post by Skimo95 »

Wildernessjane wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:28 pm My friend and I were literally chased down by some guys when we were on our way to sleep at a remote trailhead one time. Turned out they just wanted to see if we had any weed on us but it was a little bit scary at the time.
Hats off to you wilderness women. There are so many crazies out nowadays, and it seems females are primarily targeted for harassment etc. Some days I’m glad my sister isn’t a mountain bum like myself 8)

One bad experience I had was meeting Will E at Lily Lake TH. I thought I was moving fast until I came back and he was long gone [-(
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Re: Bad Experiences in the Backcountry

Post by MapScientist »

This morning there was an obviously freshly chopped aspen blocking CR60, clearly deliberately placed to block the road. It was not so big to be unmovable though, and there was nothing of note beyond it, so I don't understand its purpose. Just assholes?
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Re: Bad Experiences in the Backcountry

Post by greenonion »

oldschool wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:24 am I am conflicted about my feelings on this but here it goes....

I am only speaking about how I would handle situations such as have been posted here.

In many areas of my life I have come to this conclusion...."that which is accepted continues". To me that means behavior that is allowed to happen, without consequences and/or accountability for such behavior, shall continue to happen. There is zero reason for the OP people that did what they did to change in any way if no consequences take place.

I understand that for some (most?) fear enters into the picture. For me it doesn't. Yes, the ass hat's that are occasionally found in the back country, as well as in the front country, can be on substances, be carrying guns, can be scary, and a myriad of other possible issues, and violence may indeed ensue. Conflict is never sought out by me yet I will also not be "victimized" by some ass hat. I will always choose to stand my ground.

One of the reasons (IMO) that this type of behavior happens is it again is allowed to happen, in some cases over and over again. Perpetrators will continue to behave in such manners.

I have seen and been involved in situations such as have been posted here on this thread. I chose to stand my ground. I will always do so.

Mike
Agreed. It's absolutely what's wrong (that which is accepted continues... without consequences...) with the political climate these days, especially since about 2016.
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Re: Bad Experiences in the Backcountry

Post by peter303 »

MapScientist wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:20 pm This morning there was an obviously freshly chopped aspen blocking CR60, clearly deliberately placed to block the road. It was not so big to be unmovable though, and there was nothing of note beyond it, so I don't understand its purpose. Just assholes?
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Re: Bad Experiences in the Backcountry

Post by wombat »

Has everyone encountered hikers like this in the wilderness / away from a road? Or is this an artifact of the clash of cultures: Hikers who want a quick rest and dirt road adventurers who may take their multi-day digs quite seriously.
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Re: Bad Experiences in the Backcountry

Post by hellmanm »

It's alarming to see this many experiences with crazy people in the backcountry, but since we're here, I'll pile on. In 2019 I decided to car camp at the La Plata TH. There were other cars, tents...etc around so I really didn't think anything unusual would happen. At approx. 2-2:30AM I woke up with car lights on me, and shortly thereafter, a rock the size of a bowling ball coming through my window. This was my quarter-glass window, and I was sleeping in the back, so I have to think if they just wanted to rob me they could have picked another window to break... needless to say, I got far away from the TH and didn't summit La Plata until this year. The pigs (cops) were useless, of course, but I guess there's always going to be a subset of dangerous folks in the backcountry.

They're probably either A: on some kind of drug, B: just plain crazy, C: having a really bad day and need to grow up, or D: all of the above. It sucks, because it makes going solo a more questionable choice, and it also empowers all the folks who advocate bringing guns for self-defense (yes, I support their right, but it wouldn't be my choice).
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Re: Bad Experiences in the Backcountry

Post by JDroz »

I had a pretty heated experience last summer. I was camping with my partner and our dog in the West Fork Cimarron valley during a typical July weekend: yeehaws on 4x4 mobility scooters, Blake Shelton and Honda generators burring in the background. The land of many uses.

We were setting up for dinner when I started to hear some *pops* coming from a campsite down in the valley. Being a dry July, I was concerned that one of these patriots were lighting off fireworks. I began to walk down without any real plan, but decided the best course of action was to blatantly take photos of their license plates (AZ, likely Kingman). This obviously irked these macho men, so they start squaring up and intimidating me. I told them that fireworks are banned on NFS land, and they were being particularly irresponsible doing this in a dry year. They continued their whole "get off our property", "this is a free country" nonsense, to which I had to remind them they were on public lands, they were not entitled to their spot simply because they had been there for a few days, and there are basic rules and courtesies that should be observed while recreating. Never once during this whole spat did they deny they were lighting off fireworks until one of them, matter-of-factly, stated "we're just hitting golf balls".

At first I was like "OH!", but then I was like "ohhhhhhh", and ultimately like "oh". At this point, these men were revved UP, and my money was on them being fervent 2nd amendment supporters. With this in mind, I was not about to infringe upon these lawful citizens' inalienable right to desecrate the national forest with golf balls. These were not the type of people who could have their perspectives changed by some commie fascist libtard, so I soured my face, told them they should have more respect, and left. For the rest of the evening, they taunted me and my partner. Every time one of their balls would hit a tree, they would howl and shout reminders that it was a golf ball and not, in fact, a firework.

This confrontation will forever live in my shower's debate hall.
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Re: Bad Experiences in the Backcountry

Post by dan0rama »

JDroz wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 8:26 am I had a pretty heated experience last summer. I was camping with my partner and our dog in the West Fork Cimarron valley during a typical July weekend: yeehaws on 4x4 mobility scooters, Blake Shelton and Honda generators burring in the background. The land of many uses.

We were setting up for dinner when I started to hear some *pops* coming from a campsite down in the valley. Being a dry July, I was concerned that one of these patriots were lighting off fireworks. I began to walk down without any real plan, but decided the best course of action was to blatantly take photos of their license plates (AZ, likely Kingman). This obviously irked these macho men, so they start squaring up and intimidating me. I told them that fireworks are banned on NFS land, and they were being particularly irresponsible doing this in a dry year. They continued their whole "get off our property", "this is a free country" nonsense, to which I had to remind them they were on public lands, they were not entitled to their spot simply because they had been there for a few days, and there are basic rules and courtesies that should be observed while recreating. Never once during this whole spat did they deny they were lighting off fireworks until one of them, matter-of-factly, stated "we're just hitting golf balls".

At first I was like "OH!", but then I was like "ohhhhhhh", and ultimately like "oh". At this point, these men were revved UP, and my money was on them being fervent 2nd amendment supporters. With this in mind, I was not about to infringe upon these lawful citizens' inalienable right to desecrate the national forest with golf balls. These were not the type of people who could have their perspectives changed by some commie fascist libtard, so I soured my face, told them they should have more respect, and left. For the rest of the evening, they taunted me and my partner. Every time one of their balls would hit a tree, they would howl and shout reminders that it was a golf ball and not, in fact, a firework.

This confrontation will forever live in my shower's debate hall.
Did you apologize for harassing them with your self-righteous rant, typical of an entitled, snowflake gen-zer, after you learned that they were not indeed lighting off fireworks?
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Re: Bad Experiences in the Backcountry

Post by constipated_pete »

dan0rama wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:28 am
JDroz wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 8:26 am I had a pretty heated experience last summer. I was camping with my partner and our dog in the West Fork Cimarron valley during a typical July weekend: yeehaws on 4x4 mobility scooters, Blake Shelton and Honda generators burring in the background. The land of many uses.

We were setting up for dinner when I started to hear some *pops* coming from a campsite down in the valley. Being a dry July, I was concerned that one of these patriots were lighting off fireworks. I began to walk down without any real plan, but decided the best course of action was to blatantly take photos of their license plates (AZ, likely Kingman). This obviously irked these macho men, so they start squaring up and intimidating me. I told them that fireworks are banned on NFS land, and they were being particularly irresponsible doing this in a dry year. They continued their whole "get off our property", "this is a free country" nonsense, to which I had to remind them they were on public lands, they were not entitled to their spot simply because they had been there for a few days, and there are basic rules and courtesies that should be observed while recreating. Never once during this whole spat did they deny they were lighting off fireworks until one of them, matter-of-factly, stated "we're just hitting golf balls".

At first I was like "OH!", but then I was like "ohhhhhhh", and ultimately like "oh". At this point, these men were revved UP, and my money was on them being fervent 2nd amendment supporters. With this in mind, I was not about to infringe upon these lawful citizens' inalienable right to desecrate the national forest with golf balls. These were not the type of people who could have their perspectives changed by some commie fascist libtard, so I soured my face, told them they should have more respect, and left. For the rest of the evening, they taunted me and my partner. Every time one of their balls would hit a tree, they would howl and shout reminders that it was a golf ball and not, in fact, a firework.

This confrontation will forever live in my shower's debate hall.
Did you apologize for harassing them with your self-righteous rant, typical of an entitled, snowflake gen-zer, after you learned that they were not indeed lighting off fireworks?
ok boomer
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