14ers and Total Knee Replacement

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peter303
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Re: 14ers and Total Knee Replacement

Post by peter303 »

johnterryscott wrote:My "2 cents worth" - I fell on my knee running 16 years ago. I severely damaged it, and ended up trying microfracture surgery, and then 2 subsequent surgeries. I got by with it for 14 years, but it finally gave out. I had a TKR just over 2 years ago. The rehab was tough, and I had some hamstring issues after - but that all cleared up with time, and lots of work. Since then I've done probably 10 14ers, climbing in Ecuador, I work out everyday and did a trail half marathon last fall. My only complaint is my range of motion is not the same, so for some yoga moves I can't do them - like kneeling on my heels. Some folks with TKR have more range of motion - just depends on body type and all. I'm headed to Bolivia soon for another climbing trip, and my knee is the last thing I worry about. Good luck.
I was told artificial joints last about 20 years with moderate use. Thats why surgeons prefer to wait until one is over 60, so its done just once. A second replacement is called a revision- a more elaborate, more costly and less certain procedure. An acquaintance who has an artificial hip does 14ers, but is fearful of high impact sports like running and tennis that might wear it out too soon.
Also joint replacements are becoming so routine that some surgeons do them as outpatient procedures with no hospital stay. You start rehab walking within hours of the procedure.
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Re: 14ers and Total Knee Replacement

Post by johnterryscott »

Mine was out patient. Checked in at 10 am, home around 5 pm with a new knee.
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Hungry Jack
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Re: 14ers and Total Knee Replacement

Post by Hungry Jack »

Surgery is always the last resort. But if you can barely make it through a sedentary day without RICE, it sounds like it’s time. There is enough evidence here to suggest hiking and biking will certainly be an option post TKR. It’s certainly not sounding like an option now.
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dave_navy_VA
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Re: 14ers and Total Knee Replacement

Post by dave_navy_VA »

benlen wrote:Before you travel anywhere out of Colorado, look up the Steadman Clinic and Vail Summit Orthopeadics. We have some of the best total joint docs in the world here in Vail.

Moreover, to Otina's point, you won't find many docs and PTs in the Front Range who get what you want to do. To have the best, come to the mountains where our docs regularly return the best athletes in the world to sport (Neil Beidleman and Lindsay Vonn to name a few.)
Solid advice. I was told to just get a brace & get a total knee when it got too painful. By practice groups highlighting their sports ortho credentials. Front Range and Johns Hopkins. Waste of time. I was over 40, and they had no other options.

Instead I checked out both clinics in Vail after research on alternatives - I had a tibial osteomety/micro fracture done at VSO 3.5 years ago, left knee. It corrected some issues totally waved off in 2 earlier surgeries from a serious sports injury 10 years earlier.

Steadman wasnt interested in this approach. VSO was and offered it as an alternative. It corrected the lesion on my femur and bought time for my meniscus to finally heal. I had no weight bearing for 6 weeks, whereas the TKR guy next to me in the Vail Med center was doing that in 2 days. But it was worth it. Had the surgery in October & just took 6 weeks of sick leave and stayed in Vail with nothing to do but rehab.

And as you said Howard Head Sports Medicine for rehab/PT is as good as it gets.

Best choice I ever made. Im running and doing whatever I want.
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scootmanjones
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Re: 14ers and Total Knee Replacement

Post by scootmanjones »

The American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons (AAOS) publishes activity guidelines following total knee and total hip replacement surgery. High impact activities such as running and skiing are not advised (although most surgeons in Colorado will say you can ski - their practice would die if they told patients otherwise). Swimming and biking are okay. I would think hiking falls into that grey category between low impact and high impact, depending on what type of hiking you want to do. I'd be most worried about the high impact of hiking downhill on Class II terrain.
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ecarl65
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Re: 14ers and Total Knee Replacement

Post by ecarl65 »

By way of an update I have some bad news (for myself, haha). I went in to the doctor and complained that I never really recovered from surgery, it still felt swollen and turned red when I exercised and I had to keep icing and elevating. About 2 months ago I did a PRP injection to see if that would help, and that made things MUCH worse. It turned purple in the shower, felt more swollen, more red, more hot, etc. But they looked at it and it didn't seem that swollen, just felt like it. The redness and hotness were obvious. I had an MRI and it came back clean.

So, the doctors got together and decided that it's likely (they're not sure) "complex regional pain syndrome." I'll be honest, I'm somewhere between utter panic and complete despair. Reading about this condition it sounds horrific, incurable, unbearable and constant pain, sometimes even losing the limb. I'm really beside myself with anxiety/depression. Hopefully they caught it early enough, but it's not even clear how effective the treatments are. It's very rare, especially in knees.
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Canadian_bass
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Re: 14ers and Total Knee Replacement

Post by Canadian_bass »

Don't despair. Take action.

Get an interdisciplinary team including a pain management doctor, a knowledgeable physical therapist, read up on modern pain science (body in mind...prepare for a leap down the rabbit hole), eat right, and keep moving within your tolerance.

I've treated this condition in the past (I'm a physical therapist) and it is challenging. I wish you strength and luck during your recovery.
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ecarl65
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Re: 14ers and Total Knee Replacement

Post by ecarl65 »

Canadian_bass wrote:Don't despair. Take action.

Get an interdisciplinary team including a pain management doctor, a knowledgeable physical therapist, read up on modern pain science (body in mind...prepare for a leap down the rabbit hole), eat right, and keep moving within your tolerance.

I've treated this condition in the past (I'm a physical therapist) and it is challenging. I wish you strength and luck during your recovery.
Sigh...I wish. Well, I am taking action. I saw a psychiatrist today (because this has put me in a seriously awful state of mind) and I'm seeing the pain doctor tomorrow. I've been going to PT, but not since I got this as an official diagnosis (although they've been doing TENS, which makes me wonder what they might have suspected).

Problem is my state of mind. I'm naturally very prone to anxiety and depression (hiking used to help a lot with that, LOL), and try as I might, I'm struggling to just tell myself to suck it up and keep a stiff upper lip. I'm falling to pieces. This feels like a fate worse than death. But, who knows, maybe I'll be one of the lucky ones in whom it goes into remission, or at least doesn't advance to the point of constant, chronic, excruciating pain. Well ... any more than it is now, which is definitely making life difficult but not unbearable. Hiking is going to have to be a distant memory.
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Re: 14ers and Total Knee Replacement

Post by bergsteigen »

ecarl65 wrote:
Sigh...I wish. Well, I am taking action. I saw a psychiatrist today (because this has put me in a seriously awful state of mind) and I'm seeing the pain doctor tomorrow. I've been going to PT, but not since I got this as an official diagnosis (although they've been doing TENS, which makes me wonder what they might have suspected).

Problem is my state of mind. I'm naturally very prone to anxiety and depression (hiking used to help a lot with that, LOL), and try as I might, I'm struggling to just tell myself to suck it up and keep a stiff upper lip. I'm falling to pieces. This feels like a fate worse than death. But, who knows, maybe I'll be one of the lucky ones in whom it goes into remission, or at least doesn't advance to the point of constant, chronic, excruciating pain. Well ... any more than it is now, which is definitely making life difficult but not unbearable. Hiking is going to have to be a distant memory.
You are not alone in your feelings of depression. Many of us active types who have either had multiple accidents (I’ve broken my leg 3 times in 4 years) or those who have lengthy injury zones (multi years) have felt as you have. It is tough when ones main form of stress relief (being active outdoors) is cut off from us. Those who haven’t experienced this, have a hard time understanding the pain we go through. So it is good that you are reaching out for professional help.

I’ve often thought that we need a support group, as it seems every year another friend of mine gets added to the broken leg club! A few of mine helped me when I first went through the recovery, and gave me great advice about my new titanium rod in my tibia. Then add in the various ligament repair types and joint redos...
"Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games." - Ernest Hemingway (or was it Barnaby Conrad?)
Your knees only get so many bumps in life, don't waste them on moguls!
“No athlete is truly tested until they’ve stared an injury in the face and come out on the other side stronger than ever” -anonymous

http://otinasadventures.com @otina
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ecarl65
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Re: 14ers and Total Knee Replacement

Post by ecarl65 »

bergsteigen wrote:
ecarl65 wrote:
Sigh...I wish. Well, I am taking action. I saw a psychiatrist today (because this has put me in a seriously awful state of mind) and I'm seeing the pain doctor tomorrow. I've been going to PT, but not since I got this as an official diagnosis (although they've been doing TENS, which makes me wonder what they might have suspected).

Problem is my state of mind. I'm naturally very prone to anxiety and depression (hiking used to help a lot with that, LOL), and try as I might, I'm struggling to just tell myself to suck it up and keep a stiff upper lip. I'm falling to pieces. This feels like a fate worse than death. But, who knows, maybe I'll be one of the lucky ones in whom it goes into remission, or at least doesn't advance to the point of constant, chronic, excruciating pain. Well ... any more than it is now, which is definitely making life difficult but not unbearable. Hiking is going to have to be a distant memory.
You are not alone in your feelings of depression. Many of us active types who have either had multiple accidents (I’ve broken my leg 3 times in 4 years) or those who have lengthy injury zones (multi years) have felt as you have. It is tough when ones main form of stress relief (being active outdoors) is cut off from us. Those who haven’t experienced this, have a hard time understanding the pain we go through. So it is good that you are reaching out for professional help.

I’ve often thought that we need a support group, as it seems every year another friend of mine gets added to the broken leg club! A few of mine helped me when I first went through the recovery, and gave me great advice about my new titanium rod in my tibia. Then add in the various ligament repair types and joint redos...
I've seriously considered starting a support group for people in our situations. I've only been stumped on a good name. If anyone is interested I think I'll do it. Probably starts as a FB group but maybe eventually a set of Meetup groups IRL, a non-profit, outreach, etc. We could keep an eye out for local athletes in need, etc. Anyone with me?
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Re: 14ers and Total Knee Replacement

Post by USAKeller »

Although some time has passed, I didn't forget about this thread and do want to share what's been going on since I wrote the article on the previous page to basically right now... It also seems to be a topic that comes up on the forum somewhat regularly and I've learned so much that hopefully can benefit others who are in the market for a TKR.

But first, a brief summary and answers to some questions I've had:
• No, this injury is FAR WORSE than the ligament tears and reconstructions Lindsey Vonn had. I only wish mine was a ligament tear!
• Short of osteotomies and a lateral release, I'm blessed to pretty much cover the spectrum of types of knee surgeries with 9 surgeries total on my Left knee including: two ACL/MCL/meniscus reconstructions, a triple microfracture, biologic articular cartilage restoration, full medial meniscus transplant from a donor cadaver, Staph infection irrigation + removal of new meniscus, manipulation under anesthesia, tibial bone biopsy for possible osteomyelitis and debridement, and finally a total knee replacement... try not to be jealous. ;)
• At 34 years young, this 5-year + knee situation has turned into a statistical anomaly and I'm currently the youngest patient my doctor has done a TKR on (and I repeat verbatim: "Caroline, you have the sh***iest knee we have ever seen in any 30 yr. old patient." I love having such a bold title!).
Injections: prior to all off this mess, I've had just about every type of substance injected into my knee including multiple rounds of cortisone, all hyaluronic acid varieties, and prolozone shots. None of these helped and I personally think if your knee already is bad, it's a waste of time and money trying to delay the inevitable. I had far too much damage for PRP so I elected not to even try it, and I was turned down by the Centeno-Schultz Clinic for Stem Cell Therapy also due to far more damage than it would treat.

What I've learned through this entire process:
• Do. Your. Homework researching doctors and absolutely get multiple opinions - two are great but I think three are better and many leading doctors will do free phone opinions if you can upload or send them previous images/reports. I had 6 total opinions before my TKR. At this point, my new current doctor (Dr. Thomas Rosenberg - Rosenberg, Cooley Metcalf Clinic in Park City, UT) agreed to a TKR after having exhausted all possible biologic reconstruction options.
• Colorado has very good doctors, but my research and experience has found the best doctors to be out of state and in big cities - especially for complicated cases. Dr. LaPrade at Steadman Hawkins in Vail was one who turned me down. I also saw a doctor at Hospital for Special Surgery in New York City - HSS specializes in complicated cases.
• A huge thing for me when choosing which doctors to get opinions from was their level of involvement with everything that's going on in the knee orthopedic research and technology. I've had two of my more 'standard' surgeries from Dr. Eric McCarty but he doesn't stay on top of all of the latest technology. I went with someone who is world-renowned, runs his own research lab and clinic and is constantly on top of the latest tech - Dr. Kevin Stone of The Stone Clinic in San Francisco and he deemed me an eligible candidate for his self-developed BioKnee biologic replacement technique. His level of expertise blows me away and unfortunately I got the Staph infection from the meniscus transplant surgery (Phase II of the BioKnee). He does do free phone consults and it's 100% worth it with him.

My experience so far being one month post TKR:
• A total knee replacement surgery is NO JOKE. My surgeon also did some extra bone work removing a previous tibial screw causing more pain. I know tons of people who told me they know someone who's had a TKR and they sailed through recovery, went home the day of surgery, and relatively little pain. I was expecting that. WRONG. I ended up having to stay 3 nights in the hospital instead of 1 and barely remember the first week post-op. The pain was so immense, falling closely behind the Staph infection pain.
• The CPM machine becomes your best friend. I've never heard of any doctor prescribing a CPM for knee replacements until my current doc in Utah. I sat in that machine 22 hours per day for 2 weeks. I can't imagine not ever having a CPM for any knee surgery.

Other advice:
• Consider what type of knee replacement to get - I had a cementless replacement (also known as a press-fit; my doctor calls it the Athletic Knee Implant. Typically most joint replacements use some sort of cement or glue to adhere the parts to bones. The benefits of a press-fit are that they are geared towards younger patients hoping to return to more rigorous activities, and also for those who have had Staph (Staph loves the cement). By not using cement, those replacements are seeing a solid 20 years of life because there is no cement that can loosen the implant up from activities. If you are a uni or bi-compartmental OA patient, the Makoplasty robot is a phenomenal choice for a Partial replacement.
• Like Dr. Stone, Dr. Rosenberg was also a U.S. Ski Team doctor and they understand the need for an athlete to get back into competitive or rigorous skiing having dealt with thousands of knee injuries. I like a doctor with that mindset, rather than several non-inventive doctors who would tell me what I can't do post replacement. Neither of them put any physical activity restrictions on me. Especially with my TKR, I was pretty stoked for that. My plan has always been to come out of this mega-inury fitter, faster, better and stronger than I ever was prior to, which will help immensely on the longevity of my implant. I also plan to continue using the awesome knee brace I've been using while somehow skiing the past few seasons from here on out. I'm sure I'll run some again (heck, the model of implant in my knee is called the Stryker Triathlon!), but full-spectrum intelligent cross-training will remain my priority. **My bottom line: if this implant lasts the said 20 years for me, yes I'm going to do what I want to do while I still have my youth and in prime years. By then they'll have something even better replacements so I'm not going to just take is easy for the next 20 years.
• Another super legit biological joint replacement (similar to what Stone does) that I came across too late in my process is the Mizzou BioJoint Center in Columbia, MO. Might be worth checking out of they do phone consults to see of biologic restoration is still a possibility before the end-of-the-road artificial prosthetics have to be used. Again, another orthopedic institute pursuing the latest and greatest joint restoration science.
• I will mention that the Stryker Triathlon TKR system is one of the best out there, geared towards those wanting to return to their lifestyle, highest degree of range of motion, also designed with longevity in mind and comes in gender-specific models for better fit. Knowing what implant you are getting is key, too - you don't want to have one that is known for a lot of recalls or without enough cases to back up science on a prosthetic. Most people I know post replacement have no idea what was put inside of them, cemented or not, or what the benefits or patient complaints have been spoken about it.
NEVER GIVE UP! Without hope, we have nothing. There are more options out there for you that you maybe haven't come across yet. Injured Athletes Toolbox is an awesome support-like website that helped me cope.


I couldn't resist posting this photo (click thumbnail to enlarge)...

The top photo shows how destroyed my knee was. You see the bottom of my femur with nothing but an uneven,
chunky, and missing cartilage surface with major unevenness along all edges too. The exposed bone is pink and yellow-ish
in some areas. And the bottom photo shows my new knee - the white plate with the titanium plate below it is the tibial
implant, and the main piece is obviously bottom of the femur. Off to the right side is a little gray button - my patella is
flapped over to the side and that button is on the underside of my kneecap as that compartment was arthritic too.


Image

I hope this helps you (or anyone in a similar situation) a little bit. I'm sure I missed a lot more on what I wanted to say but never hesitate to ask any questions! Ahh, now I'm really regretting not going to Med school!
Last edited by USAKeller on Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
kjbrum73
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Re: 14ers and Total Knee Replacement

Post by kjbrum73 »

I had a total knee/femur replacement in 2012 due to a giant cell bone tumor that wrecked my right leg. In addition to the leg reconstruction, I lost about half of my right quad. I climbed my first 14er about 18 months after surgery at 41 yrs old, mostly cuz the doctors told me I couldn't. I've limped up and down 7 since then. I'm proud of that being an old, crippled, sea level living flat lander. So yes, you'll be able to hike 14ers if you want to. Going up will be easier that coming down. You'll have to use trekking poles as crutches at times and it'll hurt, but it can be done. Might have to adjust your expectations a bit. What's easy for some is hard for others. Remember, it's fun and you're not competing with anyone but yourself and the mountain.
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