What's the best type of training?

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CaptCO
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Re: What's the best type of training?

Post by CaptCO » Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:18 pm

Conor wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:10 pm
DArcyS wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:09 pm
CaptCO wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:14 pm
I’m honestly embarrassed at my “training” ethic. I think if you live in CO and work less than 50 hours a week there’s plentiful time to maintain what you’ve built. Maybe it gets harder when you’re not 20 something? I’m all ears, I eat terrible food and drink too much!
If you're in your 20s, you don't need to train to climb 14ers unless you're really out of shape for a young person. I know people who are in the 60s and 70s who climb peaks, so that kind of says something about how hard it really is to climb a high Colorado peak. Now, if you want to run up a 14er or climb all the 14ers in 20 days, that's different.

So, enjoy your 20s while you can!
Also, there are those of us that can't take off all weekend every weekend because of family responsibilities. my annual peak list will always pale in comparison to others, but I'm happy with it, if not a little guilty feeling, as it is time I'm not spending with my family. They're getting out more with me, so that is good...but, turns out my wife doesn't care if I wake up early and run for an hour or 2 before everyone wakes up.
Agreed to both, come hike Elbert Conor
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Re: What's the best type of training?

Post by jaymz » Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:26 pm

FireOnTheMountain wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:18 pm
Woah, so many words here. Answer was given within the first 1.5 pages of the thread.

Just like to point out I chimed in cause I wanted to figure out wtf TFTNA meant or was and discovered this nugget:
justiner wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:08 am
You won't need TFTNA for 14ers anyways. No peak requires you to be able to climb 5.12 and run a 9:30/mile @ 14,000. I would put the tome of the book in my pack for some weighted carries though. Works great for that.
I have actually done exactly this. Sucker is heavy.
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Re: What's the best type of training?

Post by justiner » Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:14 am

Me too - for real :lol:
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Re: What's the best type of training?

Post by Hiking_TheRockies » Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:52 am

I could use some help with training... I work really hard to be in shape in summer, and I usually do cross county in fall, but this year cross country got cancelled at my school (due to COVID) and I haven't really had any serious exercise for about 4 months. I also go to a rock climbing gym relatively often, but that too has been closed for COVID reasons. Every day I basically just come home, do homework, and then eat oreos and play video games. I'm hoping to be able to do some hikes later in January-February because the snowfall has been minimal this year, but what should I do until then?
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Re: What's the best type of training?

Post by timisimaginary » Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:52 am

Dave B wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:49 pm
justiner wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:50 am

I think that's a really great takeaway. The more lofty the goal, the more you may benefit from structure in a training plan. If you don't have that goal, it is going to be self flagellation just to do it because a book says to do it. But if it's a BIG goal - of any sort, expect some pretty boring/tedious parts.
Fo shizzle - I think that's where TFTUA get's just a little too much credit when it comes to training for 14ering. Just get out hiking more, maybe run some and lift some weights. No need to make it too serious or complicated.
definitely, i think it's already been pointed out that TFTNA is designed for mountaineering, but even TFTUA is targeted at skimo and skyrunning. it's a little closer to 14ering, but unless you're doing the Pikes Peak Marathon or Nolan's or something like that, it's really not applicable to 99.9% of 14er hiking. that doesn't mean the basic principles can't be useful for less intense activities like 14er hiking, but it's still overkill (just slightly less overkill than TFTNA).

bookwise, there's a book called The Outdoor Athlete that i think is more useful for the average person. it has chapters devoted to training for hiking, backpacking, trail running, mountain biking, etc. i can't speak to the chapters on mountain biking, skiing, rock climbing etc since i don't do those (i suspect people serious about those sports could do better with something more specifically focused on just that sport), but the chapters on hiking, backpacking and "mountaineering" are probably as good as anything you'll find in book form for 14er training (the "mountaineering" section culminates in a training plan for Rainier, so it's certainly not the same level of mountaineering that TFTNA is geared towards). i followed one of their plans before coming to CO for my first 14er hikes, and felt plenty prepared based on that training regimen.
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Re: What's the best type of training?

Post by timisimaginary » Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:07 pm

Conor wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:19 pm
3) fueling needs during "long days." when I am a top my game, I can go 18+ hours without eating and not bonking. I had a partner who couldn't give up the heavy lifting and he ate like a horse every 45 mins.

regarding "speed play" or incorporating some "faster runs" into one's training program. Jan Olbrecht (who's training strategies have been incorporated by USA swimming and our dominance in the world stage) said he has noticed no detrimental effects with a single weekly training event at a faster pace. That is caveated with a decent aerobic base and appropriate warm up and cool down to gobble up the lactate. I incorporated it for a few months and found no change. Olbrecht uses very frequent lactate testing and has strict periodization programs (usually 4-6 weeks) which he'll then adjust the next period based on lactate testing and the prior program.

I have yet to see anything go against Twight's TINSTAAFL piece. I could be convinced with true science, but it just doesn't seem intuitive to me. I have yet to fully grasp the "Boring" aspect either. I move over the trail faster than "hiking". So if slow jogging is boring, what is hiking? Also, I watched the HIIT masters (aka cross fitters) on TV for about 2 mins once. I couldn't grasp how flipping a tire over repeatedly or jumping on the same box was more exciting than jogging on a trail, but different strokes for different folks I guess.

I still stand by my original statement in this thread. The BEST thing someone can do for their hiking is lots of sple jogging. It doesn't make other methods "bad", just not as good. :-D
yeah, there are very few activities that require 18+ hours of activity without refueling. even ultrarunning, you have aid stations and plenty of chances to refuel. i think a big part of why TFTNA was created in the first place was the unique nature of mountaineering where long periods of activity on low or no fuel can occur, and much of the book is training the body to operate efficiently by using stored fat as fuel for longer pursuits where fueling may be difficult or impossible... which is also why it's not necessarily the best approach for other sports. elite marathoners are only running for a little over 2 hours, with copious opportunities to refuel, so they don't need to develop a metabolism that can forgo fuel for double-digit hours worth of activity.

anyways, when i talk about slow running being boring, for me specifically i'm talking about running on the track or road or treadmill. trail running is different. i can run or jog or hike on trails and not be bored, just because i'm out in nature, which is inherently non-boring. my trail runs are really mostly a mix of slow jogging and hiking anyway. i'm always slower on the trails than the road, but i don't mind that. i actually started trail running because some of my longer hikes were starting to get a bit boring, and i thought it would be more fun if i could cover that ground more quickly (although still pretty slowly by objective measures). if i'm training for a race, though, i have to do more non-trail running for training, and that's where the boredom factor can creep in. those are the times i'd prefer hiking or easy trail-running, or even cycling, for base training, rather than forcing myself to slog through an hour of shuffling around a track or down a bike path to keep my HR artificially low.
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Re: What's the best type of training?

Post by ker0uac » Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:51 pm

timisimaginary wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:52 am

bookwise, there's a book called The Outdoor Athlete that i think is more useful for the average person. it has chapters devoted to training for hiking, backpacking, trail running, mountain biking, etc. i can't speak to the chapters on mountain biking, skiing, rock climbing etc since i don't do those (i suspect people serious about those sports could do better with something more specifically focused on just that sport), but the chapters on hiking, backpacking and "mountaineering" are probably as good as anything you'll find in book form for 14er training (the "mountaineering" section culminates in a training plan for Rainier, so it's certainly not the same level of mountaineering that TFTNA is geared towards). i followed one of their plans before coming to CO for my first 14er hikes, and felt plenty prepared based on that training regimen.
Yep I used this book a few years ago. I also like RMI training blog and newsletters.
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Re: What's the best type of training?

Post by Jorts » Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:57 pm

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Re: What's the best type of training?

Post by AndrewLyonsGeibel » Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:02 pm

The best training is whatever you can/will do consistently while also enjoying it. Consistency is more than a lot of us probably do already.
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Re: What's the best type of training?

Post by nyker » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:07 pm

This has been my "consistent" training lately...
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Re: What's the best type of training?

Post by d_baker » Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:08 pm

nyker wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:07 pm
This has been my "consistent" training lately...
Did you move out of the city?
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Re: What's the best type of training?

Post by nyker » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:11 pm

Yea, the city was getting stressful. By mid-summer more than a dozen people died in our apartment building due to COVID and our building was under
strict controls which was bad enough. Then in August, a man outside on our sidewalk was shot and two others stabbed the same week not to mention the crime pickup elsewhere in the city.
My colleague was having dinner outside a block away and was randomly punched in the face and threatened with a syringe, same day a guy was running after people with an axe and another raped someone midday in the subway next day,
The week when a bunch of NYPD cars were blown up following all the store break-ins and bicycle gangs attacking vehicles, I said that was it. Since we are not allowed to return to work,
we waited until I could negotiate the lease and we moved upstate to a small cabin in the woods.
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