From a mountaineering/access to peaks perspective, what is the best place to live in Colorado?

[Jbrow327]

Very interesting stuff. I almost want the market to crash lol.

[gb]

When I moved to Crested Butte in the late 90's straight out of college, I didn't have any plans other than to ski and bike a bunch (still the main plan). At one point during my second winter, a roomate's girlfriend moved in, and the couchsurfer became permanent and both paid rent, so my share was $74. I was making $200 a night, at minimum, waiting tables, so needless to say it wasn't hard to make ends meet and even pay off my student loans. I have no idea how 20 year olds are making that ski bum lifestyle work today, sadly. Even back then, though, there was a steep price to pay to live here, from the types of job that were/are available, to the dating scene which was horrible back then but much improved now (not that this married guy cares anymore).

It's been interesting to watch the changes over the past 20+ years, especially now as a RE agent. As expensive as CB is, it's not that far off from Boulder. And you can buy a pretty nice house in Gunnison for less than Denver metro prices. The pay isn't as good, but for people working at the college, the hospital, or remotely, it's very doable. But given the chronic lack of new building over the last 10 years detailed above, the supply problem isn't going away anytime soon, and it's hard to imagine things getting more affordable, especially with all the WFH opportunities that people have today, further fueling the demand side.

[nunns]

There are too many of us humans. And Colorado is being loved to death by us. Our beloved state is where California was 20 years ago. To Sean Nunn, would you really want to see new development/increased supply of housing to meet the enormous demand? I've seen enough urban sprawl. Summit County is rapidly becoming Denver West. I don't think the I-70 corridor can absorb much more growth. Seems like it's already beyond carrying capacity just like the planet.

I don't mean more houses in Aspen/Breck/Lake Dillon. I mean more houses in places like Fairplay, Nathrop, Jefferson, etc. There is a LOT of land available that doesn't seem to have much other use besides ranching, which I am not a huge fan of increasing.

Obviously keeping most of it in its pristine natural state is a good thing, but I don't see anything wrong with building a few 3 bedroom, 1 bath houses on some of the abundance of what is basically high mountain desert in the rural parts of Colorado.

Sean Nunn

[LURE]

I don't mean more houses in Aspen/Breck/Lake Dillon. I mean more houses in places like Fairplay, Nathrop, Jefferson, etc. There is a LOT of land available that doesn't seem to have much other use besides ranching, which I am not a huge fan of increasing.

Obviously keeping most of it in its pristine natural state is a good thing, but I don't see anything wrong with building a few 3 bedroom, 1 bath houses on some of the abundance of what is basically high mountain desert in the rural parts of Colorado.

Sean Nunn

there's not enough demand to build tons of new neighborhoods in those places

homes are being built on the front range at probably record pace and the builders can't keep up with demand. jobs are on the i25 corridor, that's where people move.

developers aren't gonna build where the jobs and demand are, not where the jobs and demand aren't, even if that's where people would want to live

[nyker]

From one millennial to another; I work in finance & this is what I always tell people:


1.) BUY the cheapest place you can afford (mortgages are way cheaper than paying rent .. and you're paying YOURSELF .. it's like no one realizes this!)
2.) OVERPAY your mortgage & build EQUITY (within reason & only if your interest rate is lower than others .. for instance I have student loans that have higher interest than my mortgage .. I overpay these instead)
3.) SELL this home and roll the equity into the next, ideally larger or nicer house
4.) Rinse & repeat


^^ this is the magic formula ... owning your home, no matter the size & price, is one of the fastest & easiest ways to build net worth & give yourself more buying power.

BTW, this doesn't even include value increases on your home, which also provide you even more equity & buying power. Home prices in CO should *theoretically* continue increasing for a long time as people continue to move in & supply is tight.

Jake$$$

Sometimes this is true (like selling in the past year outside big cites for sure), sometimes it isn't. 'Owning' often is not the best idea for many people, depending on where you are and other factors, expenses, income, time in house, etc. Manhattan is a prime example, where often renting makes better sense in many instances due to high monthly common charges/maintenance fees/taxes not to mention condo/coop board invasiveness and approvals.
The below factors are probably more relevant for more coastal cities, but could apply elsewhere.
Some thoughts-
- There is a non-financial emotional 'plus' for many people owning a home that economics aside, makes sense for them anyway because it makes them feel better/more secure, and like "they've made it", etc.
- Real estate markets don't always go up (ask anyone who bought homes in 2005,6,7 and had to sell them in 2008-2011) - so the equity you built may not be there and you face market value risk if forced to sell due to unforeseen events.
- The opportunity cost of locking your money up in illiquid real estate needs to be considered (this year is a prime example of that given the returns available elsewhere)
- Time in residence will often dictate whether it makes sense to buy or rent, 7yrs is often a breakeven point, but again depends on housing market appreciation in a given area, supply demand dynamics, purchase price, etc.
- For some apartments and condos/co-ops, high monthly common charges/maintenance fees/HOA fees offset any gains in price appreciation over time.
- The non-deductible portions of real estate taxes and mortgage coupon expense are still expenses that add up that when running numbers need to be factored in against gains. This is especially true in states hit hard by the SALT cap.
- Broker fees upon sale (6+%), insurance, closing costs need to be factored in an economic analysis.
- breakage and repair costs are often not recovered unless covered by insurance

[nunns]

nyker is correct,

A home that you live in is an investment, but it usually isn't a GREAT investment.
For some people who aren't disciplined enough to save money on their own, buying a house is a decent way to build wealth if you know you aren't moving any time soon. Over the long haul real estate will almost always appreciate if you keep up the property (and didn't happen to buy in an area that is spiraling downhill).

Sean Nunn

[SkaredShtles]

<snip> Over the long haul real estate will almost always appreciate if you keep up the property

Just don't underestimate how much it's gonna cost to maintain the property. It's f***ing expensive over the long haul.

I'm one of those people that thinks owning a house kind of sucks... but then again, way back in the days of renting, I never had any bad experiences with rentals.