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Re: What Is a Summit? [NY Times]
Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 8:54 pm
by nyker
Agree with the comments of highest spots of rock and potentially snow, though if heavily corniced, then the highest safest point and true high points can and do change.
Look at this shot of Mt St Helens. Clearly the "summit" is no longer even there being blown off in 1980, so the high point is the tip of the highest point on the crater, which even then is subject to change due to the dangerous cornice on top.
Once I got to to the top, I got maybe 10-15ft from the edge and that's as far as I was comfortable as the rest was above air. Note the spot in the pic with the climber on top is not the high point, which is behind me, but it's the same idea.
Re: What Is a Summit? [NY Times]
Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 9:04 pm
by Carl_Healy
RhodoRose wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:28 am
"Engineers are just more practical and call anything between 0.5 and 1.49 equal to 1"
Electrical Engineers: 5 significant digits
Mechanical Engineers: 3 significant digits
Civil Engineers: "What's a significant digit?"
I mean... if you talk to Civil Engineers involved in soil mechanics and foundation engineering a factor of safety of 5 or more isn't uncommon...
(I say from academics not practice)
Re: What Is a Summit? [NY Times]
Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 10:51 pm
by Scott P
Carl_Healy wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 9:04 pm
RhodoRose wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:28 am
"Engineers are just more practical and call anything between 0.5 and 1.49 equal to 1"
Electrical Engineers: 5 significant digits
Mechanical Engineers: 3 significant digits
Civil Engineers: "What's a significant digit?"
I mean... if you talk to Civil Engineers involved in soil mechanics and foundation engineering a factor of safety of 5 or more isn't uncommon...
(I say from academics not practice)
True, but that has nothing to do with significant figures.
Funny you mention soild mechanics since every soil mechanics test I have seen breaks the significant figures rules. For example, when you perform a sieve analysis test, the first column of calcs (percent retained) is to be rounded to the nearest tenth. Then the second column (percent retained) is subtracted from 100 and rounded to the nearest whole number, with the exception of the last row #200 screen) which is rounded to the tenth like the first column (as mentioned all other calcs in the second column are rounded to the nearest whole number).
I haven't seen any soil mechanics tests or calcs that follow significant figures rules. I think the "what's that" definitely applies to civil engineering and significant figures.
Re: What Is a Summit? [NY Times]
Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 9:20 am
by Carl_Healy
Scott P wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 10:51 pm
Carl_Healy wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 9:04 pm
RhodoRose wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:28 am
"Engineers are just more practical and call anything between 0.5 and 1.49 equal to 1"
Electrical Engineers: 5 significant digits
Mechanical Engineers: 3 significant digits
Civil Engineers: "What's a significant digit?"
I mean... if you talk to Civil Engineers involved in soil mechanics and foundation engineering a factor of safety of 5 or more isn't uncommon...
(I say from academics not practice)
True, but that has nothing to do with significant figures.
Funny you mention soild mechanics since every soil mechanics test I have seen breaks the significant figures rules. For example, when you perform a sieve analysis test, the first column of calcs (percent retained) is to be rounded to the nearest tenth. Then the second column (percent retained) is subtracted from 100 and rounded to the nearest whole number, with the exception of the last row #200 screen) which is rounded to the tenth like the first column (as mentioned all other calcs in the second column are rounded to the nearest whole number).
I haven't seen any soil mechanics tests or calcs that follow significant figures rules. I think the "what's that" definitely applies to civil engineering and significant figures.
Yeah I was more bringing that up to point out the "cultural differences" between different types of engineering, not really talking about sig figs. I guess I could have made that clearer if I pointed out what an ME may consider an acceptable factor of safety etc.
Re: What Is a Summit? [NY Times]
Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 9:37 am
by Dave B
Engineers be like: "give me some data collected by someone else and a manual of equations developed by someone else, and I'll give you *an* answer to any problem."
I'm kidding, I love engineers. One of my best friends is an engineer, he gets lost a lot.
Re: What Is a Summit? [NY Times]
Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 9:38 am
by Scott P
Dave B wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 9:37 am
Engineers be like: "give me some data collected by someone else and a manual of equations developed by someone else, and I'll give you *an* answer to any problem."
But only if there is a computer program or spreadsheet to help.
Re: What Is a Summit? [NY Times]
Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 10:24 am
by Carl_Healy
Scott P wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 9:38 am
Dave B wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 9:37 am
Engineers be like: "give me some data collected by someone else and a manual of equations developed by someone else, and I'll give you *an* answer to any problem."
But only if there is a computer program or spreadsheet to help.
"Engineering is the art of modelling materials we do not wholly understand, into shapes we cannot precisely analyse so as to withstand forces we cannot properly assess, in such a way that the public has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance."
Dr. AR Dykes