Early starts and feeling sick
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- DavidK
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick
It's probably unique to each person, but 10+ years ago I used to have mild nausea with zero-dark-thirty starts. Since then, I have changed from sugary-sweet and heavily processed breakfast foods to the salty end of the spectrum, and I haven't had that kind of issue since. Everyone is different. Just my two cents.
- highpilgrim
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick
Yes. But apparently not teeing off summits.
Call on God, but row away from the rocks.
Hunter S Thompson
Walk away from the droning and leave the hive behind.
Dick Derkase
Hunter S Thompson
Walk away from the droning and leave the hive behind.
Dick Derkase
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick
Haha, a perfect response from someone with a username such as yours!
My schedule is almost like clockwork hah, but if the body allows, I always try to get it out before I take off. It is amazing how off it can make the tummy feel.
430 is about as late as I'll ever start, and that is with sleeping in my car at the TH. I very rarely sleep at home the night before. Winter and spring especially require early starts to stay safe and maximize daylight.
As for what I eat for breakfast, I'll quote Oman on that one
"Nausea: It's what for breakfast on the mountain."
Its usually caloric output, not intake for a while til theres nothing left. I cant even keep water down in the AM.
Debilitating is the perfect word for it, and what I also describe it as.DeTour wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 9:09 pm My daughter has experienced this nausea and wooziness on several occasions. Very pronounced when it happens, debilitating. Doesn't seem to be altitude sickness - she lives in Denver area and can seem perfectly well acclimated and still encounter it occasionally. She has speculated that maybe hiking by headlamp, combined with the exertion of the uphill grind, is a factor. I have speculated that it could be a migraine reaction, as she has some history of that manifesting primarily in that type of symptom, not severe pain. (That doesn't necessarily exclude the headlamp theory as a trigger.)
That could be an interesting theory to look into further. With exertion and bright light triggers. Ive had bouts of severe headaches that hurt so bad I start vomiting and get very blurry vision from the pain. Thankfully only had that happen twice in the hills, in non consequential areas.
You might be on to something here... Thinking back, I notice when I'm sleeping in my car at the trailhead, my heart seems to always be pounding when I wake up to toss and turn. Im a very restless sleeper when im not in my bed, which could be a compounding issue. But I do notice my heart rate is always elevated more than normal.
Then having to wake up fully, and start out while my heart is beating in my throat doesn't help either.
Often times, I will get sick before my alarm even goes off or shortly after I get out of my sleeping bag.
I seriously appreciate everyone's input here.
The risk I took was calculated, but I'm terrible at math.
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick
Scary,
OK, your last paragraph above got my attention. I was thinking earlier that this problem would lend itself to some experimentation, e.g. try leaving from home before a hike, experiment with diet, etc. But your comment that you can get sick before the alarm even goes off undercuts any exertion-based hypothesis, as well as any based on headlamps/bright light. Pounding heartbeat in the throat before you even start, etc? I'm not a doc but this sure sounds like a textbook panic attack reaction (fwiw I had a bit of a psych background decades ago, before I became a lawyer). But of course seek out a better opinion than mine, just my .02.
-Tom
OK, your last paragraph above got my attention. I was thinking earlier that this problem would lend itself to some experimentation, e.g. try leaving from home before a hike, experiment with diet, etc. But your comment that you can get sick before the alarm even goes off undercuts any exertion-based hypothesis, as well as any based on headlamps/bright light. Pounding heartbeat in the throat before you even start, etc? I'm not a doc but this sure sounds like a textbook panic attack reaction (fwiw I had a bit of a psych background decades ago, before I became a lawyer). But of course seek out a better opinion than mine, just my .02.
-Tom
- disentangled
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick
salt works for me too.DavidK wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 9:29 pm It's probably unique to each person, but 10+ years ago I used to have mild nausea with zero-dark-thirty starts. Since then, I have changed from sugary-sweet and heavily processed breakfast foods to the salty end of the spectrum, and I haven't had that kind of issue since. Everyone is different. Just my two cents.
- mtree
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick
Interesting. It sounds more and more like anxiety issues. That's more mental so I'd say you're looking to the wrong doc for advice.
Nothing is going to work until you get that resolved.
I sleep like crap before a big hike or early start regardless of where I bunk so I always go with the mantra, "Its not the sleep you get the night before the hike. Its the sleep you get the night before the night before the hike." I'll have mild anxiety before I start, but once I get moving I'm all good. As for a breakfast, its always very light and easily digestible. Doesn't matter if its just a PopTart, an organic cereal bar, handful of potato chips, or a piece of bacon. But its got to be light. And sometimes nothing at all.
Getting the gut emptied either the night before or morning is GREAT, but doesn't always happen. So to help with this I go easy on heavy foods for a few days prior to the hike. Sometimes helps, but not guaranteed. A couple beefy, 7% ABV and preferably unfiltered craft beers the night before isn't a bad choice either. A buddy of mine swears by a good cup of strong coffee in the morning, but that doesn't do it for me. And as always, stay hydrated! Dehydration will lead to nausea.
Finally, I find too much sitting around or prepping in the morning (early darkness) makes it worse. Let's just get moving already! I've been tossing all night so I'm ready to hit the trail.
Good luck on your journey. That's a tough one.
Nothing is going to work until you get that resolved.
I sleep like crap before a big hike or early start regardless of where I bunk so I always go with the mantra, "Its not the sleep you get the night before the hike. Its the sleep you get the night before the night before the hike." I'll have mild anxiety before I start, but once I get moving I'm all good. As for a breakfast, its always very light and easily digestible. Doesn't matter if its just a PopTart, an organic cereal bar, handful of potato chips, or a piece of bacon. But its got to be light. And sometimes nothing at all.
Getting the gut emptied either the night before or morning is GREAT, but doesn't always happen. So to help with this I go easy on heavy foods for a few days prior to the hike. Sometimes helps, but not guaranteed. A couple beefy, 7% ABV and preferably unfiltered craft beers the night before isn't a bad choice either. A buddy of mine swears by a good cup of strong coffee in the morning, but that doesn't do it for me. And as always, stay hydrated! Dehydration will lead to nausea.
Finally, I find too much sitting around or prepping in the morning (early darkness) makes it worse. Let's just get moving already! I've been tossing all night so I'm ready to hit the trail.
Good luck on your journey. That's a tough one.
- I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was blaming you.
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick
I deal with some of this too, though not to the degree that you do. I think mtree and others nailed it - most likely a heavy dose of anxiety mixed with some potential aggravators. I'm not a hugely touchy feely guy, but maybe consider some relaxation exercises in the evening before you get to sleep? Maybe some visualization? Acknowledge any fear or anxiety about the upcoming day, then think through how the day goes and how you work through that. Might help you get to bed in a better state of mind and maybe not start out so far in the hole.
Good luck!
Good luck!
- disentangled
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick
i think the "it's all in your head" (anxiety) explanations are useless. no psychology is gonna stop you from puking at 4:00am. a nutritional deficiency of some sort is a more likely cause. it's just a matter of figuring it out via experimentation.
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick
I respectfully disagree. Lots of people, I mean lots, have successfully been treated for anxiety issues and panic attacks. Such treatment is relatively common. Think: fear of flying, test anxiety, PTSD, etc. I struggle to understand how a nutritional deficiency could cause this issue when (a) it's apparently limited to infrequent hiking events, and (b) he says he gets sick before he has even gotten out of his sleeping bag.
But hey, what do I know?
-Tom
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick
The only thing that makes me question it a little bit, is because like I mentioned before, it seems on the more commiting climbs I've been on have been when I havent really thrown up. Like the nerves are almost what settles my stomach.TomPierce wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 9:36 amI respectfully disagree. Lots of people, I mean lots, have successfully been treated for anxiety issues and panic attacks. Such treatment is relatively common. Think: fear of flying, test anxiety, PTSD, etc. I struggle to understand how a nutritional deficiency could cause this issue when (a) it's apparently limited to infrequent hiking events, and (b) he says he gets sick before he has even gotten out of his sleeping bag.
But hey, what do I know?
-Tom
Thinking back on some times I can remember:
-Did Bancroft east ridge in winter, and felt really strong. Summer also, as my second roped climb ever, and also felt fine.
-Teakettle, the week after a major major scare in the mountains, being my first roped experience ever in the wild I felt really strong and calm.
-Kelso ridge in winter, perfectly fine. Just annoyed by the non stop winds.
-Climbed/skiied crooked on Audubon and felt fine.
*Tried to do Audubon this past summer before work, and felt absolutely miserable, I couldn't stop throwing up. **wildfire smoke definitely did not help.
-Climbed and skiied Toll last year, and felt amazing.
*Climbed and skiied Toll last month and felt like absolute death. But the conditions were 1000x better this time around. Made up for the misery.
-Blanca as a snow climb last year felt fine.
*Blanca/Hamilton in the summer, puking brains out in morning
-Citadel in the summer I threw up a little, but definitely not my worst day.
*Climb and ski of Citadel I felt like an absolute machine. We went up for a second round too.
-Climb and ski of Castle peak last spring, felt amazing.
*Winter climb of Castle this year, I threw up quite a bit.
These are just direct comparisons between some repeats, or more "nerve wracking" climbs I've done. Making me think that its not entirely in my head with panic attacks and nerves.
With the exception of a couple weeks here and there, I am out climbing almost every single weekend. Some big days or weekends, some not too stressful. It honestly takes some pretty intense stuff to make me start getting nervous about the mountains. I really like the challenge and intense focus on myself and the task at hand. I get really calm in the moment with big exposure, and steep, deeply focused stuff.
I just went to ski Cathedral this past weekend. Not a serious undertaking in any way for me. Endurance wise, as well and skills required for climbing/skiing. I was actually quite excited for this one more than anything, as it was going to be a super fun ski in a drop dead gorgeous place.
Slept in the bed of my friends truck, on my sleeping pad and slept for around 2 hours pretty solid. Woke up around 12am to something, felt queasy after stirring and was puking for hours after that. Mostly a lot of acid at first, but then things from very deep down inside. (Sorry for the gross details) hah. It made me feel exhausted, and terrible. I tried to drink as much water as possible before setting out, but id just get rid of it quick.
Made the most of the day, but that was one of the days I couldnt even push myself for the summit. Most of the time, I can atleast manage that. Getting to the saddle where I could have a decent ski was hard enough.
The risk I took was calculated, but I'm terrible at math.
- HikerGuy
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick
When you sleep in your car, do you keep the windows cracked? If not, carbon dioxide (CO2) poisoning causes nausea and vomiting.
EDIT: Ignore that. Apparently, this is not possible as cars are not airtight.
EDIT: Ignore that. Apparently, this is not possible as cars are not airtight.
Last edited by HikerGuy on Thu May 20, 2021 11:07 am, edited 3 times in total.
- mtree
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick
And the most obvious of all... maybe its altitude sickness?Scary_Canary wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 8:09 am It only ever happens to me in the mountains, never any other time. Even rising early from my own bed at home doesnt make me feel sick like this.
- I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was blaming you.