Early starts and feeling sick

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TomPierce
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by TomPierce »

Scary,

This is helpful, but also kind of strange, e.g. for the more committing stuff there's no sickness at all? What percentage of all mountain outings result in getting sick? Do you experience sickness prior to any other mountain events, e.g. resort skiing, mountain biking? Any commonalities with the sickness events? Sorry to pepper you with questions, and again I'm no doc, but this is really a conundrum. I know of a few folks with anxiety issues but the sporadic nature of your sickness makes your issue different, e.g. a fear of flying is pretty much non-wavering, not just "I only get sick prior to an American Airlines flight, fine on other airlines." :lol:

I assume you've had a physucal at some point, e.g. no lurking GI issues?

-Tom
Scary_Canary
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by Scary_Canary »

TomPierce wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 11:06 am Scary,

This is helpful, but also kind of strange, e.g. for the more committing stuff there's no sickness at all? What percentage of all mountain outings result in getting sick? Do you experience sickness prior to any other mountain events, e.g. resort skiing, mountain biking? Any commonalities with the sickness events? Sorry to pepper you with questions, and again I'm no doc, but this is really a conundrum. I know of a few folks with anxiety issues but the sporadic nature of your sickness makes your issue different, e.g. a fear of flying is pretty much non-wavering, not just "I only get sick prior to an American Airlines flight, fine on other airlines." :lol:

I assume you've had a physucal at some point, e.g. no lurking GI issues?

-Tom
Tom,

I really dont get it any other time, only in the mountains for my mountaineering activities. Sleeping in a car at the TH, I'll get it if I'm backpacking too sometimes, but not always.
Ive tried replicating almost exactly what I did and ate on days when I have felt good, and had entirely different results between climbs. Luckily I'm out enough to be able to experiment around, just no like finding any consistency between my efforts.
:-k I would guess a solid 70-75 percent of my hikes I get sick in some way or another.
I'd say it could be related to altitude somehow, but my boyfriend's parents own a cabin at around 9500ft and I never get that feeling sleeping there. Or waking up early if I have to. I'd hope after living here my whole life, and the frequency which I'm in the mountains that it wouldn't be altitude sickness at this point.

I have gotten a physical every year. I have been so frustrated and worn down by this whole ordeal that I even went out of my way to see the doc again to get any sort of advice. A stretch for me, I hate seeing doctors. Im thinking of getting a recommendation to a sports medicine or GI specialist or something next. Im at a loss.

Im starting to think it may be something along the lines of "You ever get so tired you feel like youre gonna puke?"
The risk I took was calculated, but I'm terrible at math.
TomPierce
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by TomPierce »

Scary,

OK, fair enough, sorry you're going through this. The triggers (or non-triggers...) are baffling given all the data you've shared. Fwiw, solely what I'd do: For sure talk to a good doc, probably a GI specialist? I'd hate to hear you tried various solutions when the causation was, in fact, something hidden and more serious. I'll share probably more than I should: Years ago my mom, who lived alone, was complaining of severe abdominal pain. I took her to the ER, had the usual battery of tests done, X-rays, etc. The doc's diagnosis (and yeah, a full blown M.D): constipation with an unstated tone of it-was-in-her-head. I left the ER with her and a prescription for a laxative in hand. Two days later another doc called from an ER at another hospital. She was in complaining of the same pain, he found she had an abdominal tumor the size of a large orange, he was going to operate within hours. She later passed away, years ago, from cancer.

I certainly do not want to be alarmist at all, but maybe get the bad possibilities eliminated soon, then experiment once those are ruled out?

I wish you the best of luck & good health.

-Tom
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disentangled
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by disentangled »

TomPierce wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 9:36 am
shelly+ wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 9:17 am i think the "it's all in your head" (anxiety) explanations are useless. no psychology is gonna stop you from puking at 4:00am. a nutritional deficiency of some sort is a more likely cause. it's just a matter of figuring it out via experimentation.
I respectfully disagree. Lots of people, I mean lots, have successfully been treated for anxiety issues and panic attacks. Such treatment is relatively common. Think: fear of flying, test anxiety, PTSD, etc. I struggle to understand how a nutritional deficiency could cause this issue when (a) it's apparently limited to infrequent hiking events, and (b) he says he gets sick before he has even gotten out of his sleeping bag.

But hey, what do I know?

-Tom
no problem, Tom. i've had this exact problem, as described by Canary. just saying. i fixed it.
TomPierce
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by TomPierce »

shelly+ wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 1:03 pm
TomPierce wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 9:36 am
shelly+ wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 9:17 am i think the "it's all in your head" (anxiety) explanations are useless. no psychology is gonna stop you from puking at 4:00am. a nutritional deficiency of some sort is a more likely cause. it's just a matter of figuring it out via experimentation.
I respectfully disagree. Lots of people, I mean lots, have successfully been treated for anxiety issues and panic attacks. Such treatment is relatively common. Think: fear of flying, test anxiety, PTSD, etc. I struggle to understand how a nutritional deficiency could cause this issue when (a) it's apparently limited to infrequent hiking events, and (b) he says he gets sick before he has even gotten out of his sleeping bag.

But hey, what do I know?

-Tom
no problem, Tom. i've had this exact problem, as described by Canary. just saying. i fixed it.
Shelly,

I think we're all trying to help Scary out, sorry if I jumped on your response. I have a teenage daughter with significant anxiety issues, so I'm probably too sensitive about the issue.

-Tom
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disentangled
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by disentangled »

TomPierce wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 1:05 pm
shelly+ wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 1:03 pm
TomPierce wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 9:36 am

I respectfully disagree. Lots of people, I mean lots, have successfully been treated for anxiety issues and panic attacks. Such treatment is relatively common. Think: fear of flying, test anxiety, PTSD, etc. I struggle to understand how a nutritional deficiency could cause this issue when (a) it's apparently limited to infrequent hiking events, and (b) he says he gets sick before he has even gotten out of his sleeping bag.

But hey, what do I know?

-Tom
no problem, Tom. i've had this exact problem, as described by Canary. just saying. i fixed it.
Shelly,

I think we're all trying to help Scary out, sorry if I jumped on your response. I have a teenage daughter with significant anxiety issues, so I'm probably too sensitive about the issue.

-Tom
i understand, Tom. thanks. Canary, i'm focused on a few details here, specifically the puking and another mention of headache with puking. it's counterintuitive but both are related to food for me. i feel too sick to eat... but if i eat the *right* foods, my body feels waaay better. and this happens *only* for early starts at 14er THs (sometimes if i'm up early for other hikes elsewhere). it's not altitude sickness, although altitude certainly adds an element of stress on my body in this circumstance.
timisimaginary
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by timisimaginary »

DeTour wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:09 pm My daughter has experienced this nausea and wooziness on several occasions. Very pronounced when it happens, debilitating. Doesn't seem to be altitude sickness - she lives in Denver area and can seem perfectly well acclimated and still encounter it occasionally. She has speculated that maybe hiking by headlamp, combined with the exertion of the uphill grind, is a factor. I have speculated that it could be a migraine reaction, as she has some history of that manifesting primarily in that type of symptom, not severe pain. (That doesn't necessarily exclude the headlamp theory as a trigger.) But that's pure speculation by me, not the one experiencing it.
there could be something to this. i think hiking with a headlamp can cause motion sickness-type issues. if that's the case, it's worth trying a chest-mounted lamp or even a good old hand-held flashlight to see if that helps.
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Wildernessjane
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by Wildernessjane »

Exercise induced vomiting? Apparently this is actually a “thing” and is often linked to strenuous exercise. I wonder if you are not giving your body adequate time to warm up when you get those early starts (the post about changes in heart rate was intriguing). Also, many of those examples of when the problem did not occur involved scrambling or technical terrain where you would likely be moving more slowly. Maybe that’s not a coincidence. The only time I’ve experienced this personally is back when I used to do Imogene Pass Run every year and I would finish strong but then get nauseous or vomit at the finish line. However, I’m very intentional about starting out slowly and warming up. I do have a couple friends who have struggled with this though and both tend not to be good morning eaters so fueling adequately can be a challenge for them.

Some interesting reads:

https://www.advancedhumanperformance.co ... ucednausea

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4027831/
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AndrewLyonsGeibel
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by AndrewLyonsGeibel »

I get those exact symptoms and for me it’s severe anxiety/panic attacks. It hasn’t happened before a hike, but it has before a race. That is not a recipe for a good day. There could be something to the motion sickness and headlamp. I don’t get motion sick at all, but I could see it happening. The migraine idea is interesting as stress can be a trigger and they can manifest in many different ways.
AndrewLyonsGeibel
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by AndrewLyonsGeibel »

Wildernessjane wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 3:53 pm Exercise induced vomiting? Apparently this is actually a “thing” and is often linked to strenuous exercise. I wonder if you are not giving your body adequate time to warm up when you get those early starts (the post about changes in heart rate was intriguing). Also, many of those examples of when the problem did not occur involved scrambling or technical terrain where you would likely be moving more slowly. Maybe that’s not a coincidence. The only time I’ve experienced this personally is back when I used to do Imogene Pass Run every year and I would finish strong but then get nauseous or vomit at the finish line. However, I’m very intentional about starting out slowly and warming up. I do have a couple friends who have struggled with this though and both tend not to be good morning eaters so fueling adequately can be a challenge for them.

Some interesting reads:

https://www.advancedhumanperformance.co ... ucednausea

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4027831/
I’ve definitely vomited due to exertion. In college we had a trash can at the end of each lane. It was pretty common. Think it was a lactic acid issue.
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Wish I lived in CO
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by Wish I lived in CO »

I feel relatively great at elevation in everything except that I struggle to eat at elevation. The higher I go, the harder it gets. Starts somewhere above 10k. If on an up high overnight, morning time I have to cook a hot breakfast and it takes up to 20+ minutes to eat it so I don't barf. But is invaluable as on the trail up high is harder to eat there, though I can nibble on some choice snacks. For whatever reason fruit cups always work well, though they don't pack quite as efficient. Dinner at high camp always seems the easiest, I guess because the stress of the climb is gone and I'm hungry from burning thousands of calories but not consuming many.
I look up to the mountains - does my help come from there? My help comes from the Lord, who made heaven and earth! Psalm 121:1-2
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nyker
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by nyker »

Scary_Canary wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 8:09 am Wondering if anyone else experiences this, and if so what they have found that works well to prevent it.
.....
I'm at a loss for what to do, and am hoping someone here may have similar experiences, and advice on what I can do. Thanks in advance.
I've had the same issue, not vomiting per se, but the other way :roll: ...I found it's really just linked to screwing with your body's natural sleep-wake cycle and early starts (1,2,3am) ; when I can have more time to adjust, its much better.
As others mention maybe there was an anxiety component as well, but then often that was linked to me not feeling well so little bit of a vicious cycle.
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