Early starts and feeling sick

Items that do not fit the categories above.
Forum rules
  • This is a mountaineering forum, so please keep your posts on-topic. Posts do not all have to be related to the 14ers but should at least be mountaineering-related.
  • Personal attacks and confrontational behavior will result in removal from the forum at the discretion of the administrators.
  • Do not use this forum to advertise, sell photos or other products or promote a commercial website.
  • Posts will be removed at the discretion of the site administrator or moderator(s), including: Troll posts, posts pushing political views or religious beliefs, and posts with the purpose of instigating conflict within the forum.
For more details, please see the Terms of Use you agreed to when joining the forum.
User avatar
DavidK
Posts: 52
Joined: 3/6/2010
14ers: 32 
Trip Reports (2)
 

Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by DavidK »

It's probably unique to each person, but 10+ years ago I used to have mild nausea with zero-dark-thirty starts. Since then, I have changed from sugary-sweet and heavily processed breakfast foods to the salty end of the spectrum, and I haven't had that kind of issue since. Everyone is different. Just my two cents.
User avatar
highpilgrim
Posts: 3186
Joined: 3/14/2008
14ers: 58 
13ers: 84 1
Trip Reports (1)
 

Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by highpilgrim »

SchralpTheGnar wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 3:45 pm You should take up golf.

:lol:

Yes. But apparently not teeing off summits.
Call on God, but row away from the rocks.
Hunter S Thompson

Walk away from the droning and leave the hive behind.
Dick Derkase
Scary_Canary
Posts: 55
Joined: 11/9/2018
Trip Reports (3)
 

Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by Scary_Canary »

aholle88 wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 3:01 pm Make sure to get the early morning 💩 out before you start.
Haha, a perfect response from someone with a username such as yours! :lol:
My schedule is almost like clockwork hah, but if the body allows, I always try to get it out before I take off. It is amazing how off it can make the tummy feel.
HikerGuy wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 3:24 pm How early are we talking? Anyway to mitigate that? For example, sleeping at the trailhead instead of driving from home. What are you eating for breakfast?
430 is about as late as I'll ever start, and that is with sleeping in my car at the TH. I very rarely sleep at home the night before. Winter and spring especially require early starts to stay safe and maximize daylight.
As for what I eat for breakfast, I'll quote Oman on that one
"Nausea: It's what for breakfast on the mountain."
Its usually caloric output, not intake for a while til theres nothing left. I cant even keep water down in the AM.
DeTour wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:09 pm My daughter has experienced this nausea and wooziness on several occasions. Very pronounced when it happens, debilitating. Doesn't seem to be altitude sickness - she lives in Denver area and can seem perfectly well acclimated and still encounter it occasionally. She has speculated that maybe hiking by headlamp, combined with the exertion of the uphill grind, is a factor. I have speculated that it could be a migraine reaction, as she has some history of that manifesting primarily in that type of symptom, not severe pain. (That doesn't necessarily exclude the headlamp theory as a trigger.)
Debilitating is the perfect word for it, and what I also describe it as.
That could be an interesting theory to look into further. With exertion and bright light triggers. Ive had bouts of severe headaches that hurt so bad I start vomiting and get very blurry vision from the pain. Thankfully only had that happen twice in the hills, in non consequential areas.
ker0uac wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 12:23 pm Given that you begin to feel better after sometime, my best guess is that it's related to increasing and then stabilizing your heart rate.

You might be on to something here... Thinking back, I notice when I'm sleeping in my car at the trailhead, my heart seems to always be pounding when I wake up to toss and turn. Im a very restless sleeper when im not in my bed, which could be a compounding issue. But I do notice my heart rate is always elevated more than normal.
Then having to wake up fully, and start out while my heart is beating in my throat doesn't help either.
Often times, I will get sick before my alarm even goes off or shortly after I get out of my sleeping bag.


I seriously appreciate everyone's input here.
The risk I took was calculated, but I'm terrible at math.
TomPierce
Posts: 2735
Joined: 11/21/2007
Trip Reports (2)
 

Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by TomPierce »

Scary,

OK, your last paragraph above got my attention. I was thinking earlier that this problem would lend itself to some experimentation, e.g. try leaving from home before a hike, experiment with diet, etc. But your comment that you can get sick before the alarm even goes off undercuts any exertion-based hypothesis, as well as any based on headlamps/bright light. Pounding heartbeat in the throat before you even start, etc? I'm not a doc but this sure sounds like a textbook panic attack reaction (fwiw I had a bit of a psych background decades ago, before I became a lawyer). But of course seek out a better opinion than mine, just my .02.

-Tom
User avatar
disentangled
Posts: 533
Joined: 6/15/2018
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by disentangled »

DavidK wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:29 pm It's probably unique to each person, but 10+ years ago I used to have mild nausea with zero-dark-thirty starts. Since then, I have changed from sugary-sweet and heavily processed breakfast foods to the salty end of the spectrum, and I haven't had that kind of issue since. Everyone is different. Just my two cents.
salt works for me too.
User avatar
mtree
Posts: 1473
Joined: 6/16/2010
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by mtree »

Interesting. It sounds more and more like anxiety issues. That's more mental so I'd say you're looking to the wrong doc for advice.
Nothing is going to work until you get that resolved.

I sleep like crap before a big hike or early start regardless of where I bunk so I always go with the mantra, "Its not the sleep you get the night before the hike. Its the sleep you get the night before the night before the hike." I'll have mild anxiety before I start, but once I get moving I'm all good. As for a breakfast, its always very light and easily digestible. Doesn't matter if its just a PopTart, an organic cereal bar, handful of potato chips, or a piece of bacon. But its got to be light. And sometimes nothing at all.

Getting the gut emptied either the night before or morning is GREAT, but doesn't always happen. So to help with this I go easy on heavy foods for a few days prior to the hike. Sometimes helps, but not guaranteed. A couple beefy, 7% ABV and preferably unfiltered craft beers the night before isn't a bad choice either. A buddy of mine swears by a good cup of strong coffee in the morning, but that doesn't do it for me. And as always, stay hydrated! Dehydration will lead to nausea.

Finally, I find too much sitting around or prepping in the morning (early darkness) makes it worse. Let's just get moving already! I've been tossing all night so I'm ready to hit the trail.

Good luck on your journey. That's a tough one.
- I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was blaming you.
TheRealRooster
Posts: 107
Joined: 2/18/2016
14ers: 6  2 
13ers: 3 1
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by TheRealRooster »

I deal with some of this too, though not to the degree that you do. I think mtree and others nailed it - most likely a heavy dose of anxiety mixed with some potential aggravators. I'm not a hugely touchy feely guy, but maybe consider some relaxation exercises in the evening before you get to sleep? Maybe some visualization? Acknowledge any fear or anxiety about the upcoming day, then think through how the day goes and how you work through that. Might help you get to bed in a better state of mind and maybe not start out so far in the hole.

Good luck!
User avatar
disentangled
Posts: 533
Joined: 6/15/2018
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by disentangled »

i think the "it's all in your head" (anxiety) explanations are useless. no psychology is gonna stop you from puking at 4:00am. a nutritional deficiency of some sort is a more likely cause. it's just a matter of figuring it out via experimentation.
TomPierce
Posts: 2735
Joined: 11/21/2007
Trip Reports (2)
 

Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by TomPierce »

shelly+ wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 9:17 am i think the "it's all in your head" (anxiety) explanations are useless. no psychology is gonna stop you from puking at 4:00am. a nutritional deficiency of some sort is a more likely cause. it's just a matter of figuring it out via experimentation.
I respectfully disagree. Lots of people, I mean lots, have successfully been treated for anxiety issues and panic attacks. Such treatment is relatively common. Think: fear of flying, test anxiety, PTSD, etc. I struggle to understand how a nutritional deficiency could cause this issue when (a) it's apparently limited to infrequent hiking events, and (b) he says he gets sick before he has even gotten out of his sleeping bag.

But hey, what do I know?

-Tom
Scary_Canary
Posts: 55
Joined: 11/9/2018
Trip Reports (3)
 

Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by Scary_Canary »

TomPierce wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 9:36 am
shelly+ wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 9:17 am i think the "it's all in your head" (anxiety) explanations are useless. no psychology is gonna stop you from puking at 4:00am. a nutritional deficiency of some sort is a more likely cause. it's just a matter of figuring it out via experimentation.
I respectfully disagree. Lots of people, I mean lots, have successfully been treated for anxiety issues and panic attacks. Such treatment is relatively common. Think: fear of flying, test anxiety, PTSD, etc. I struggle to understand how a nutritional deficiency could cause this issue when (a) it's apparently limited to infrequent hiking events, and (b) he says he gets sick before he has even gotten out of his sleeping bag.

But hey, what do I know?

-Tom
The only thing that makes me question it a little bit, is because like I mentioned before, it seems on the more commiting climbs I've been on have been when I havent really thrown up. Like the nerves are almost what settles my stomach.

Thinking back on some times I can remember:

-Did Bancroft east ridge in winter, and felt really strong. Summer also, as my second roped climb ever, and also felt fine.

-Teakettle, the week after a major major scare in the mountains, being my first roped experience ever in the wild I felt really strong and calm.

-Kelso ridge in winter, perfectly fine. Just annoyed by the non stop winds.

-Climbed/skiied crooked on Audubon and felt fine.
*Tried to do Audubon this past summer before work, and felt absolutely miserable, I couldn't stop throwing up. **wildfire smoke definitely did not help.

-Climbed and skiied Toll last year, and felt amazing.
*Climbed and skiied Toll last month and felt like absolute death. But the conditions were 1000x better this time around. Made up for the misery.

-Blanca as a snow climb last year felt fine.
*Blanca/Hamilton in the summer, puking brains out in morning

-Citadel in the summer I threw up a little, but definitely not my worst day.
*Climb and ski of Citadel I felt like an absolute machine. We went up for a second round too.

-Climb and ski of Castle peak last spring, felt amazing.
*Winter climb of Castle this year, I threw up quite a bit.

These are just direct comparisons between some repeats, or more "nerve wracking" climbs I've done. Making me think that its not entirely in my head with panic attacks and nerves.
With the exception of a couple weeks here and there, I am out climbing almost every single weekend. Some big days or weekends, some not too stressful. It honestly takes some pretty intense stuff to make me start getting nervous about the mountains. I really like the challenge and intense focus on myself and the task at hand. I get really calm in the moment with big exposure, and steep, deeply focused stuff.

I just went to ski Cathedral this past weekend. Not a serious undertaking in any way for me. Endurance wise, as well and skills required for climbing/skiing. I was actually quite excited for this one more than anything, as it was going to be a super fun ski in a drop dead gorgeous place.
Slept in the bed of my friends truck, on my sleeping pad and slept for around 2 hours pretty solid. Woke up around 12am to something, felt queasy after stirring and was puking for hours after that. Mostly a lot of acid at first, but then things from very deep down inside. (Sorry for the gross details) hah. It made me feel exhausted, and terrible. I tried to drink as much water as possible before setting out, but id just get rid of it quick.
Made the most of the day, but that was one of the days I couldnt even push myself for the summit. Most of the time, I can atleast manage that. Getting to the saddle where I could have a decent ski was hard enough.
The risk I took was calculated, but I'm terrible at math.
User avatar
HikerGuy
Posts: 1406
Joined: 5/25/2006
14ers: 58 
13ers: 426 8
Trip Reports (9)
 

Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by HikerGuy »

When you sleep in your car, do you keep the windows cracked? If not, carbon dioxide (CO2) poisoning causes nausea and vomiting.

EDIT: Ignore that. Apparently, this is not possible as cars are not airtight.
Last edited by HikerGuy on Thu May 20, 2021 11:07 am, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
mtree
Posts: 1473
Joined: 6/16/2010
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by mtree »

Scary_Canary wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 8:09 am It only ever happens to me in the mountains, never any other time. Even rising early from my own bed at home doesnt make me feel sick like this.
And the most obvious of all... maybe its altitude sickness?
- I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was blaming you.
Post Reply