The National Parks - America's best idea?

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12ersRule
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The National Parks - America's best idea?

Post by 12ersRule »

Article about the RMNP permit system - how some waited for an hour in a line only to get denied by the gatekeeper.

https://theknow.denverpost.com/2021/06/ ... ms/259783/

My inner Nelson Muntz says "Ha ha", but OTOH, how would tourists even know to ask the question, do I need a reservation to go to a national park. I know when I went to Zion NP, it was annoying as hell to enter the main touristy part. We eventually rented some lousy bikes at around $15 an hour to get in.
Last edited by 12ersRule on Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dave B
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Re: Waiting in line and getting denied....

Post by Dave B »

I would say giant flashing signs that state a permit is needed would solve the problem, but I drive on roads all the time with giant flashing signs that people never seem to see.

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Re: Waiting in line and getting denied....

Post by Scott P »

If you don't want to deal with the crowds, don't go to a national park on a holiday weekend (or on any weekend in the tourist season). It's simple to go somewhere else or to go during the off season. Except for near where we parked, we didn't see anyone on Memorial Day weekend.
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Re: Waiting in line and getting denied....

Post by justiner »

It's hard to get around the fact that the timed entry permit system is sort of a bolted on solution to the problem of limiting Park visitation. I'm not saying I know a better solution, but this isn't the only issue with how the Park is managed on a fundamental level - which I also don't have the solution to (I can't manage my shoe collection let along a huge swath of National Park!). It's going to be a stressful time to be a RMNP employee that's for sure. If timed-entry is here to stay, it's going to take some major adjustment by everyone to get used to.
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Re: The National Parks - America's best idea?

Post by cottonmountaineering »

in the past it seems like limiting parking has been the solution to overcrowding, it still allows people to drive through the park which a lot of tourists seem content with. feel for the park rangers this season dealing with ignorant tourists
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Re: The National Parks - America's best idea?

Post by peter303 »

Last summer the Visitor Center entrance had two checkpoints (1) first to see if you had a reservation barcode, (2) the actual entrance. This prevented people from getting screwed after waiting in line a long time.

The reservation barcode meant you prepaid admission, eliminating another bottleneck.
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Re: The National Parks - America's best idea?

Post by 12ersRule »

My main beef with the reservation system is that it is totally biased against people without easy access to the internet. Granted, those same people probably don't have the time off or a reliable enough vehicle to get there anyway.
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Re: The National Parks - America's best idea?

Post by headsizeburrito »

Sounds like they need better (more clear and visible) signage that gives people an earlier chance to turn around before waiting in line. "ENTRY RESERVATION REQUIRED 5AM-6PM" etc. Save people the trouble and save parks employees from getting yelled at. It sucks to lose the spontaneity of visiting without jumping through hoops (that fill up immediately anyway) but I'm not sure there is a better option for high use areas.

I think just limiting parking and allowing people to just take a scenic drive works in some areas, but not those with this level of use and such a long corridor. It would cause major congestion and would be unenforceable existing alongside the reservation system with people without reservations pulling off wherever, circling the parking areas, or squeezing out people who did get a permit.

While this is still technically a "pilot program" for RMNP I have no doubt it will become permanent. No real way around it that I can think of given the use levels, even if it creates barriers that will make access more difficult and has disproportionate impacts on visitors less able to plan ahead or those will less internet access. I expect some version of this system to become increasingly common at high use parks.

I haven't seen much talk about the new Mt Evans system, but maybe that should be a separate thread.
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Re: The National Parks - America's best idea?

Post by Scott P »

12ersRule wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:42 am My main beef with the reservation system is that it is totally biased against people without easy access to the internet. Granted, those same people probably don't have the time off or a reliable enough vehicle to get there anyway.
Unfortunately, I don't see a good alternative though. When the parking places are full, they are full. Without altering the landscape completely, there isn't a good way to increase the parking capacity in the park.

It seems that the only alternatives to parks such as Rocky Mountain on crowded weekends is either a reservation system where you know that you can find a place to park somewhere, to let people in with no reservation system and then take a chance that every single parking place is going to be full, or to ban cars in the park and make everyone take a shuttle to every trailhead or viewpoint. The latter is what a lot of parks in places like Europe do, but I don't think people would go for that. Maybe in the future.
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Re: The National Parks - America's best idea?

Post by jfm3 »

The Mt. Evans reservation system was supposed to go live this morning but as of right now it's still delayed. Major technical issues, they say. What a mess.
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Re: The National Parks - America's best idea?

Post by headsizeburrito »

jfm3 wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:26 pm The Mt. Evans reservation system was supposed to go live this morning but as of right now it's still delayed. Major technical issues, they say. What a mess.
Yeah, I just made a separate thread about it here: https://www.14ers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60058
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Re: The National Parks - America's best idea?

Post by Bombay2Boulder »

Sadly this is gonna be the new norm with the population explosion the front range has experienced. I am curious how the ice lake situation pans out next season with the permits.
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