Climate Change

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Climate change:

is happening and is a direct consequence of industrialism and overpopulation over the last 200yrs and if we do nothing, humans are going to live in dramatically different, inhospitable conditions over the next 200yrs, think Mad Max
80
69%
is happening and is just a natural cycle of the earth and environment, will happen again once we are long gone, and possibly not much we can do about it except maybe at the margin
19
16%
is likely happening and we just currently lack sufficient information over a long enough period to draw an accurate conclusion of the extent that humans have possibly impacted its potential acceleration
14
12%
is Hogwash, what climate change? It's the media and politicians trying to scare us or sway votes and public opinion. EVs? I don't even like charging my phone.
3
3%
 
Total votes: 116
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cottonmountaineering
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Re: Climate Change

Post by cottonmountaineering »

ker0uac wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:18 pm
cottonmountaineering wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:04 pm
ker0uac wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:30 pm Per the CDC, you don't need to wear masks outside, but I am not gonna engage in this discussion. If you don't trust the CDC, then I'll just label you a Science-denier.

"The CDC says that whether they are fully vaccinated or not, people do not have to wear masks outdoors when they walk, bike or run alone or with members of their household. They can also go maskless in small outdoor gatherings with fully vaccinated people."
https://apnews.com/article/cdc-mask-wea ... 9428b59634

Interesting that when I mentioned the guy who I saw walking OUTSIDE AND ALONE for about 5 minutes while wearing mask, most people jumped in to defend him. Those people brought up extenuating circumstances to void my argument that he wasn't following Science: "oh maybe he's immuno-compromised", "oh maybe he was just visiting someone who is immuno-compromised", "oh maybe he forgot it after leaving a store", blah blah. Lots of understanding and tolerance towards that guy. Yet, when someone doesn't agree 100% with the climate change crowd, that same crowd immediately piles on to insult and humiliate him. Seems like a double standard. Is it possible that maybe that person doesn't trust liberal media or Democrats when they talk about climate change? White blue-collar conservatives are being left behind by an economy that no longer provides the jobs that once catered to them. They grew up in small towns and never left for the cities, they didn't go to college and didn't really need to as there were plenty of jobs that paid enough to afford their lifestyle. Now, progress is being pushed down their throat by intellectuals who are the very same ones profiting from such progress. The green energy revolution doesn't need blue collar workers. Manufacturing needed for green energy is sent to Asia. Production isn't labor intensive. Green energy requires highly qualified workers, far from the type who grew up working in coal mines and oil fields. But decades ago when green energy was just an idea, those blue collars were the ones powering your houses and enabling your consumerism. They were well respected and even Hollywood would portray them in movies and shows with a positive tone. Shows like Honeymooners and Roseanne don't exist anymore. Blue collar workers nowadays are barely portrayed in movies and shows, and when they are, it is usually as backward and dumb. Now you don't need blue collar workers anymore coz you got your Teslas, your wind and solar power, and you got your slave labor in Asia to enable your even greater consumerism, so f**k them right? f**k those dumbtards who can't understand Science because we rewarded them handsomely to do the blue collar jobs that we didn't want to do thus keeping them out of higher education. f**k them and make them get used to leaving their small towns to go college and take on office jobs. And those who can't adapt, well, f**k them.
Are you ok? The entirety of your argument is nullified because people can wear masks for any reason they want to
That's exactly the double standard I was referring to. When conservatives don't follow science and facts, they are insulted and humiliated. When liberals don't follow science and facts, "oh well, there are various reasons for why". Surveys have shown that Democrats get the covid risks more wrong than Republicans, but I am sure ya'll have a perfectly fine explanation for why that is the case.
You're crazy man, who cares what other people do if they aren't hurting anyone
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Somewhat of a Prick
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Re: Climate Change

Post by Somewhat of a Prick »

Scott P wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:20 pm
ker0uac wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:18 pm Surveys have shown that Democrats get the covid risks more wrong than Republicans, but I am sure ya'll have a perfectly fine explanation for why that is the case.
Do you have a link to such a survey?
I've seen a few of these

https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 20-09336-3


*edit*

Also this one is the one I was initially looking for:

https://www.brookings.edu/research/how- ... behaviors/

Image
Last edited by Somewhat of a Prick on Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bale
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Re: Climate Change

Post by Bale »

cottonmountaineering wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:10 pm Show me on the doll where the mask touched you
Cotton FTW!
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey
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Bale
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Re: Climate Change

Post by Bale »

This thread is ... heating up. :?
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey
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Re: Climate Change

Post by ker0uac »

cottonmountaineering wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:22 pm
ker0uac wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:18 pm
cottonmountaineering wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:04 pm

Are you ok? The entirety of your argument is nullified because people can wear masks for any reason they want to
That's exactly the double standard I was referring to. When conservatives don't follow science and facts, they are insulted and humiliated. When liberals don't follow science and facts, "oh well, there are various reasons for why". Surveys have shown that Democrats get the covid risks more wrong than Republicans, but I am sure ya'll have a perfectly fine explanation for why that is the case.
You're crazy man, who cares what other people do if they aren't hurting anyone
Got it, so the goalpost now is that it's ok to deny science and facts if doing so doesn't hurt anyone? In other words, liberals can cherrypick which science to follow?

Some Americans hesitate to shed masks despite eased outdoor rules
"Long worried the CDC was premature in saying masking outdoors is not necessary unless in crowds, since COVID-19 is still a very real risk, particularly for immuno-compromised people."
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/you-fe ... 021-05-07/

Many of us are allowed to take off our masks: Why some of us don't want to
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/hea ... 924240001/

People nervous to give up masks after being vaccinated
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/pe ... d-n1260917

But surely, none of this is representative of people acting out of fear, not trusting Science and denying facts. I mean, Science has ruled on the mask issue, but it's ok if people don't trust that Science. They MUST trust the Science on climate change though. That's a non-starter.
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Re: Climate Change

Post by Dave B »

ker0uac wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:33 pm Got it, so the goalpost now is that it's ok to deny science and facts if doing so doesn't hurt anyone? In other words, liberals can cherrypick which science to follow?
One involves liberals continuing to wear masks despite shifting CDC guidelines. The other involves conservatives denying a body of science and impeding efforts to curtail global warming.

Yeah, those are definitely the same thing and equivalent in impact and scope...
Make wilderness less accessible.
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cottonmountaineering
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Re: Climate Change

Post by cottonmountaineering »

ker0uac wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:33 pm
cottonmountaineering wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:22 pm
ker0uac wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:18 pm

That's exactly the double standard I was referring to. When conservatives don't follow science and facts, they are insulted and humiliated. When liberals don't follow science and facts, "oh well, there are various reasons for why". Surveys have shown that Democrats get the covid risks more wrong than Republicans, but I am sure ya'll have a perfectly fine explanation for why that is the case.
You're crazy man, who cares what other people do if they aren't hurting anyone
Got it, so the goalpost now is that it's ok to deny science and facts if doing so doesn't hurt anyone? In other words, liberals can cherrypick which science to follow?

Some Americans hesitate to shed masks despite eased outdoor rules
"Long worried the CDC was premature in saying masking outdoors is not necessary unless in crowds, since COVID-19 is still a very real risk, particularly for immuno-compromised people."
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/you-fe ... 021-05-07/

Many of us are allowed to take off our masks: Why some of us don't want to
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/hea ... 924240001/

People nervous to give up masks after being vaccinated
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/pe ... d-n1260917

But surely, none of this is representative of people acting out of fear, not trusting Science and denying facts. I mean, Science has ruled on the mask issue, but it's ok if people don't trust that Science. They MUST trust the Science on climate change though. That's a non-starter.
The difference between some dude outside wearing a mask and putting trillions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere effect 1 person, and 7ish billion people respectively.

So yes, i support individual liberty as long as what you're doing does not encroach upon my rights. Polluting affects me negatively.

I'm a registered libertarian so you can put away your name calling and conspiracy theories too
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Re: Climate Change

Post by ker0uac »

Dave B wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:37 pm
ker0uac wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:33 pm Got it, so the goalpost now is that it's ok to deny science and facts if doing so doesn't hurt anyone? In other words, liberals can cherrypick which science to follow?
One involves liberals continuing to wear masks despite shifting CDC guidelines. The other involves conservatives denying a body of science and impeding efforts to curtail global warming.

Yeah, those are definitely the same thing and equivalent in impact and scope...
I'd say it differently so I can use liberal jargon:

One involves liberals continuing to wear masks despite science being clear that it is no longer needed. The other involves conservatives continuing to deny climate change despite science being clear that it's happening.
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Re: Climate Change

Post by Bale »

Hey, at least getting the likes of cf and kerO to admit that AGW is real is a sign of progress! Unfortunately it’s way too little, too late. We should have been aggressively altering our policies/behaviors/lifestyles like 30 or 40 years ago. Oh well, like I said before, enjoy the ride.
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey
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cottonmountaineering
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Re: Climate Change

Post by cottonmountaineering »

ker0uac wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:42 pm
Dave B wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:37 pm
ker0uac wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:33 pm Got it, so the goalpost now is that it's ok to deny science and facts if doing so doesn't hurt anyone? In other words, liberals can cherrypick which science to follow?
One involves liberals continuing to wear masks despite shifting CDC guidelines. The other involves conservatives denying a body of science and impeding efforts to curtail global warming.

Yeah, those are definitely the same thing and equivalent in impact and scope...
I'd say it differently so I can use liberal jargon:

One involves liberals continuing to wear masks despite science being clear that it is no longer needed. The other involves conservatives continuing to deny climate change despite science being clear that it's happening.
yes i do agree with your opinion that the liberal is exercising their personal liberty without harming anyone else. And the conservatives are actively harming the earth. glad you cleared it up
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Re: Climate Change

Post by supranihilest »

ker0uac wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:30 pmWhite blue-collar conservatives are being left behind by an economy that no longer provides the jobs that once catered to them. They grew up in small towns and never left for the cities, they didn't go to college and didn't really need to as there were plenty of jobs that paid enough to afford their lifestyle. Now, progress is being pushed down their throat by intellectuals who are the very same ones profiting from such progress. The green energy revolution doesn't need blue collar workers. Manufacturing needed for green energy is sent to Asia. Production isn't labor intensive. Green energy requires highly qualified workers, far from the type who grew up working in coal mines and oil fields. But decades ago when green energy was just an idea, those blue collars were the ones powering your houses and enabling your consumerism. They were well respected and even Hollywood would portray them in movies and shows with a positive tone. Shows like Honeymooners and Roseanne don't exist anymore. Blue collar workers nowadays are barely portrayed in movies and shows, and when they are, it is usually as backward and dumb. Now you don't need blue collar workers anymore coz you got your Teslas, your wind and solar power, and you got your slave labor in Asia to enable your even greater consumerism, so f**k them right? f**k those dumbtards who can't understand Science because we rewarded them handsomely to do the blue collar jobs that we didn't want to do thus keeping them out of higher education. f**k them and make them get used to leaving their small towns to go college and take on office jobs. And those who can't adapt, well, f**k them.
Wait, so it's liberals fault that conservatives dug in their heels and refused to stay current with the changing global market? Talk about passing the buck. Look at coal mining in West Virginia. It was Hillary Clinton who had a campaign promise to provide modern job training and re-training. Meanwhile the coal mining industry has continued its decline and its displaced workers got nothing. How about those blue collar jobs in the auto industry? It wasn't conservatives who voted for the bailout. Surely letting the auto industry die would have somehow, in that invisible hand, free market way, actually saved those blue collar jobs instead? It was conservatives who voted to dig in their heels and refuse to stay current with the changing global market. Now, I'm sure there are many people who are tired or getting tired of having conservatives slap away the hand that wants to help. I am one of them. But I also think we should keep trying to help the poor, the jobless, the disenfranchised, the downtrodden, the forgotten, the ignored, the weak, the sick, regardless of how many times they refuse help.

So what's it going to be? More permanent tax cuts for the rich and free market solutions and status quo? More blaming windmills for deregulated, privatized power grid failure? More claims that the dominant majority religion is persecuted because gay people exist? More attacks on higher education and public programs that overwhelmingly help the very people who attack them? Should we actually help these blue collar workers or should we attack Hollywood? Should we help these blue collar workers or should we attack consumerism? Should we help these blue collar workers or should we fight tooth and nail against any small increase in prices or taxes on anything at the cost of our nation's health? What's it going to be?
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Re: Climate Change

Post by highpilgrim »

supranihilest wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:14 pm What's it going to be?
They're praying for a return to 50s murica. Where men were MEN, women stayed in the kitchen, gays stayed in the closet, blacks stayed in the fields and the guys in charge decided everything for us all based upon what worked best for them.

Not gonna happen, thank god. =D>
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