Young children and hiking/mountaineering

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OBC13
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Re: Young children and hiking/mountaineering

Post by OBC13 »

We have six kids, all grown now. I did not approach hiking the same for all of them. They are all different people. We did family hikes to lakes and the like when some were very young. My oldest did Handies with me in 1982 at age 5. Three of my boys were in scouts and we did a lot of hiking with the troups. I took 2 of the boys and one girl through Wilderness Trekking School with the CMC. I had to participate in the classes with them every time since they were supposedly too young. My oldest also completed the CMC Basic Mountaineering School. We've also climbed Camel's Hump and Mt. Mansfield in Vermont. But as I look back at all the high peak climbs (I have a list of them with everyone's name noted who climbed or hiked) I notice that the youngest is often around 10 to 12 when actual summits are achieved. My oldest may be the exception since he kept climbing with me from age 5 on.
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Re: Young children and hiking/mountaineering

Post by dpage »

nyker wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:36 pm
dpage - that deuter model looks good, where do you put your gear that you might normally carry, since the gear storage in that one looks like its just for the little one?
There's a sleeve for a water bladder and the space under the kid holds enough gear and food for us to do a ten+ mile day with puff jackets, rain coats, hays and gloves for both of us. I store my filter and maps higher in the pack's elastic pockets. I believe the Kid Comfort 2 has more room for gear than the competition.
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Re: Young children and hiking/mountaineering

Post by nyker »

Thanks dpage, this looks cool - though think she might need to grow into it a bit more!
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Re: Young children and hiking/mountaineering

Post by dpage »

We used a Lille baby carrier when they were on the front and carried a backpack like normal. In summer being sandwiched between kid and backpack felt like wearing a down coat. Those little ones create a ton of heat.
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Re: Young children and hiking/mountaineering

Post by ECF55 »

nyker wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:36 pm ECF55 -which east coast mountains were those? I can't imagine taking anyone too young up the harder Adirondack peaks with those wet slabs and boulders.
We’re down in the Mid-Atlantic. The best stuff was in/around Shenandoah NP, including the back side of Old Rag and Peaks along the AT. Standard trail and good infrastructure. Fall is just glorious.
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Re: Young children and hiking/mountaineering

Post by nyker »

Over the next 6 months to a year, as we think about traveling with a very young child, I had some concerns about the impact of higher altitude on a child with still-developing brain, lungs, etc. and any possible long term ramifications that such lower oxygen levels could have on a child. Local physicians didn't really have much opinion on the topic other than commenting it's fine to fly. I'm not seeking a hard and fast medical opinion, but is anyone aware of any research that focus on any potential developmental issues in very young children (< one year), due to lower oxygen levels/partial pressure O2, however it's characterized at higher altitudes (10,000ft or higher) or I guess even ~7,000ft for that matter for staying in mountain towns, for children that are not born and/or normally live at higher elevations? (Or if you have any personal experience on the matter). I am thinking a pulse oximeter might be good to carry along, but suppose a normal sized one won't work.
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Re: Young children and hiking/mountaineering

Post by Chicago Transplant »

nyker wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:04 am Over the next 6 months to a year, as we think about traveling with a very young child, I had some concerns about the impact of higher altitude on a child with still-developing brain, lungs, etc. and any possible long term ramifications that such lower oxygen levels could have on a child. Local physicians didn't really have much opinion on the topic other than commenting it's fine to fly. I'm not seeking a hard and fast medical opinion, but is anyone aware of any research that focus on any potential developmental issues in very young children (< one year), due to lower oxygen levels/partial pressure O2, however it's characterized at higher altitudes (10,000ft or higher) or I guess even ~7,000ft for that matter for staying in mountain towns, for children that are not born and/or normally live at higher elevations? (Or if you have any personal experience on the matter). I am thinking a pulse oximeter might be good to carry along, but suppose a normal sized one won't work.
I sort of have personal experience, though I don't remember it. I was on top of Pikes via the Cog when I was 15 months old. I did throw a tantrum and was throwing spaghetti in the restaurant that night according to my parents, it must have been a good one for them to have brought it up so much during my childhood :lol: Don't know if it was the altitude that caused my behavior or not though. It could have been altitude sickness or a headache and me being 15 months expressing that through whining. I was not usually one to throw those kind of tantrums so it was unusual behavior on my part.

Otherwise beware that they might grow up and be obsessed with climbing peaks!
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Re: Young children and hiking/mountaineering

Post by madbuck »

nyker wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:04 am I'm not seeking a hard and fast medical opinion, but is anyone aware of any research that focus on any potential developmental issues in very young children (< one year)=
I looked a bit when my son was born, and didn't find anything overly compelling. Generally, I think if there were massive risks involved, we would have "discovered" it -- it'd be interesting science, and it'd also be monetized. Instead, I think it's individualized and likely small effects.

I think we hiked around 10-11k feet at times when my kids were just a few months old and would be sleeping much of the time, plus ski area visits. I felt more confident hiking at higher elevations after 6months-1 year (increasingly closer to 1 year). Mostly, I was more in tune with their needs/habits, and being able to communicate anything unusual. They were also both born in Fall so they were older by the time the next summer rolled around.

Based on the previous discussions of pulse ox, there seems to be so much variability and inability to discern meaning at elevation, which would be even more true for infants, so I would think of that as more of a confusing distraction. I think by then you'll have a good idea of the child's demeanor and ability to communicate.

I also think some elevation change and exposure (within reason) is natural and possibly beneficial. The most unnatural part is the flying bit, going from sea level to higher elevations practically instantaneously. But after that, some additional elevation is another reasonable natural stress to which our bodies have the ability to adapt. Sort of like the 'hygiene hypothesis' in which too clean of an environment doesn't allow a fully-functional immune system to develop, there are other things (like heat/cold) our body adapts to and can increasingly learn to do. Being reductionist, I suppose being at sea level in a controlled environment might be "optimal" for the brain, but holistically, developing some adaptability in a new setting which also brings joy to all of you should not be discounted.

(Disclosure, I work in some capacity of physiology in biomarker development, particularly in cardiovascular disease, so I read a bit on the topic... but my biggest interest is doing things outside, especially with my kids, so I look for ways to rationalize decisions I already made or want to make. Hope this helps in some way!)

Congratulations and have fun!
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Re: Young children and hiking/mountaineering

Post by jaymz »

We bought a house in St. Mary's (10,000') when our son was about 7 months old, made frequent renovation trips with him and moved in right before his 1st birthday. He never seemed bothered by the altitude; still, we found some comfort in the Owlet sock while he would sleep, which measures heartrate and blood oxygen level (not sure how accurately, but it seemed to work fairly consistently at least!). Other than one time when he was pretty sick, it would show roughly the same readings as when we'd be down in town.
We only lived up there about a year, but there seemed to be quite a few healthy, normal older kids running around the area who'd lived there pretty much their whole childhood.
That's far from any solid medical opinion you might be looking for :)
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Re: Young children and hiking/mountaineering

Post by huffy13 »

nyker wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:36 pm

huffy13, wren - had your children been on quite a few hikes before getting their first 14er?
My son was one his middle school track team's long distance guys and my daughter was in dance, ballet and was starting volleyball at the time, they did do some hiking with me around the area that we live, but nothing big elevation wise. They were both just very active and loved the thought of hiking with me. One thing I did worry about was that my daughter had allergy induced asthma at the time, fairly mild.
Seems like the times that I need a mountain the most are the times that I can not get to them.
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Re: Young children and hiking/mountaineering

Post by nyker »

Chicago Transplant wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:12 am
nyker wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:04 am Over the next 6 months to a year, as we think about traveling with a very young child, I had some concerns about the impact of higher altitude on a child with still-developing brain, lungs, etc. and any possible long term ramifications that such lower oxygen levels could have on a child. Local physicians didn't really have much opinion on the topic other than commenting it's fine to fly. I'm not seeking a hard and fast medical opinion, but is anyone aware of any research that focus on any potential developmental issues in very young children (< one year), due to lower oxygen levels/partial pressure O2, however it's characterized at higher altitudes (10,000ft or higher) or I guess even ~7,000ft for that matter for staying in mountain towns, for children that are not born and/or normally live at higher elevations? (Or if you have any personal experience on the matter). I am thinking a pulse oximeter might be good to carry along, but suppose a normal sized one won't work.
I sort of have personal experience, though I don't remember it. I was on top of Pikes via the Cog when I was 15 months old. I did throw a tantrum and was throwing spaghetti in the restaurant that night according to my parents, it must have been a good one for them to have brought it up so much during my childhood :lol: Don't know if it was the altitude that caused my behavior or not though. It could have been altitude sickness or a headache and me being 15 months expressing that through whining. I was not usually one to throw those kind of tantrums so it was unusual behavior on my part.

Otherwise beware that they might grow up and be obsessed with climbing peaks!
Haha, good color! Thanks Chicago Transplant. Might have to keep her away from any long noodles near any mountains.
madbuck wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:43 am
nyker wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:04 am I'm not seeking a hard and fast medical opinion, but is anyone aware of any research that focus on any potential developmental issues in very young children (< one year)=
I looked a bit when my son was born, and didn't find anything overly compelling. Generally, I think if there were massive risks involved, we would have "discovered" it -- it'd be interesting science, and it'd also be monetized. Instead, I think it's individualized and likely small effects.

I think we hiked around 10-11k feet at times when my kids were just a few months old and would be sleeping much of the time, plus ski area visits. I felt more confident hiking at higher elevations after 6months-1 year (increasingly closer to 1 year). Mostly, I was more in tune with their needs/habits, and being able to communicate anything unusual. They were also both born in Fall so they were older by the time the next summer rolled around.

Based on the previous discussions of pulse ox, there seems to be so much variability and inability to discern meaning at elevation, which would be even more true for infants, so I would think of that as more of a confusing distraction. I think by then you'll have a good idea of the child's demeanor and ability to communicate.

I also think some elevation change and exposure (within reason) is natural and possibly beneficial. The most unnatural part is the flying bit, going from sea level to higher elevations practically instantaneously. But after that, some additional elevation is another reasonable natural stress to which our bodies have the ability to adapt. Sort of like the 'hygiene hypothesis' in which too clean of an environment doesn't allow a fully-functional immune system to develop, there are other things (like heat/cold) our body adapts to and can increasingly learn to do. Being reductionist, I suppose being at sea level in a controlled environment might be "optimal" for the brain, but holistically, developing some adaptability in a new setting which also brings joy to all of you should not be discounted.

(Disclosure, I work in some capacity of physiology in biomarker development, particularly in cardiovascular disease, so I read a bit on the topic... but my biggest interest is doing things outside, especially with my kids, so I look for ways to rationalize decisions I already made or want to make. Hope this helps in some way!)

Congratulations and have fun!
Appreciate the background info on this, thank you madbuck
jaymz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:36 pm We bought a house in St. Mary's (10,000') when our son was about 7 months old, made frequent renovation trips with him and moved in right before his 1st birthday. He never seemed bothered by the altitude; still, we found some comfort in the Owlet sock while he would sleep, which measures heartrate and blood oxygen level (not sure how accurately, but it seemed to work fairly consistently at least!). Other than one time when he was pretty sick, it would show roughly the same readings as when we'd be down in town.
We only lived up there about a year, but there seemed to be quite a few healthy, normal older kids running around the area who'd lived there pretty much their whole childhood.
That's far from any solid medical opinion you might be looking for :)
ok thanks, jaymiz, that's good to know. Hoping our little one won't either. I'll have to look into that owlet sock...
huffy13 wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:41 pm
nyker wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:36 pm

huffy13, wren - had your children been on quite a few hikes before getting their first 14er?
My son was one his middle school track team's long distance guys and my daughter was in dance, ballet and was starting volleyball at the time, they did do some hiking with me around the area that we live, but nothing big elevation wise. They were both just very active and loved the thought of hiking with me. One thing I did worry about was that my daughter had allergy induced asthma at the time, fairly mild.
ok, so they were pretty active if not hiking anyway, thanks wren
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Re: Young children and hiking/mountaineering

Post by mgmotomx »

I took my son on Angels Landings when he was 5, Mt Elbert at 6 and Mt Whitney at age 7. We live in Texas.
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