Scrambling/Soloing: Where do you draw the line?

[seano]

I wiped out in wet snow on C2-2+ bouldering on the descent of Mt Alice last October. Hit the left side of my head, sustaining a concussion that has changed my life, completely sidelined me for nearly the past year.
Never expected that in a million years.
My accident was due to fatigue - very little to no sleep the night prior, and the fact that my microspikes were balling up with snow and not getting purchase on the terrain.
And, regrettably, I was not wearing a helmet.
I was fortunate - had I hit the back of my head with that much impact, I may not be here today.
I didn't have any "gut feeling" prior to the incident.

So sorry to hear that -- I've avoided concussions so far, but have friends who haven't been so lucky. Who wears a helmet boulder-hopping, something we all do for hours and hours? But if you think too much about what could actually happen if you slip or a boulder shifts while you're moving at speed on talus, you'll be paralyzed by fear. Even easy mountaineering requires understanding, mitigating, and accepting risk.

[Jay521]

I wiped out in wet snow on C2-2+ bouldering on the descent of Mt Alice last October. Hit the left side of my head, sustaining a concussion that has changed my life, completely sidelined me for nearly the past year.
Never expected that in a million years.
My accident was due to fatigue - very little to no sleep the night prior, and the fact that my microspikes were balling up with snow and not getting purchase on the terrain.
And, regrettably, I was not wearing a helmet.
I was fortunate - had I hit the back of my head with that much impact, I may not be here today.
I didn't have any "gut feeling" prior to the incident. Thus, as Seano says, "Bad things happen in the mountains, even when you're not operating near your limit."
Hindsight is 20-20.
My experience would have the line drawn lower than 3rd class. I was with a great partner that day, as well.

Sunny1 is minimizing her fortitude and guts that day. She kept a positive attitude the whole way down - something that I'm not sure I could have done in similar circumstances.

[pvnisher]

Tbh, even a twisted ankle, knee, etc, up high can be life threatening. Depending on the weather and your pack contents, if you're unable to descend under your own power, any slip or twist can be deadly.

[sunny1]

I wiped out in wet snow on C2-2+ bouldering on the descent of Mt Alice last October. Hit the left side of my head, sustaining a concussion that has changed my life, completely sidelined me for nearly the past year.
Never expected that in a million years.
My accident was due to fatigue - very little to no sleep the night prior, and the fact that my microspikes were balling up with snow and not getting purchase on the terrain.
And, regrettably, I was not wearing a helmet.
I was fortunate - had I hit the back of my head with that much impact, I may not be here today.
I didn't have any "gut feeling" prior to the incident.

So sorry to hear that -- I've avoided concussions so far, but have friends who haven't been so lucky. Who wears a helmet boulder-hopping, something we all do for hours and hours? But if you think too much about what could actually happen if you slip or a boulder shifts while you're moving at speed on talus, you'll be paralyzed by fear. Even easy mountaineering requires understanding, mitigating, and accepting risk.

Thank you - appreciate the comment! I'll probably be "that guy" wearing a helmet on boulders. Can't afford another hit on the head. Your thought about easy mountaineering is spot on.
Read your Brouillard and Peuterey ridges report - your headspace and written clarity of your experience are impressive. Incredible photos. Hope your leg and toe are healing well. Would've loved to be a fly on the wall when the ER doc chastised you!

[sunny1]

I wiped out in wet snow on C2-2+ bouldering on the descent of Mt Alice last October. Hit the left side of my head, sustaining a concussion that has changed my life, completely sidelined me for nearly the past year.
Never expected that in a million years.
My accident was due to fatigue - very little to no sleep the night prior, and the fact that my microspikes were balling up with snow and not getting purchase on the terrain.
And, regrettably, I was not wearing a helmet.
I was fortunate - had I hit the back of my head with that much impact, I may not be here today.
I didn't have any "gut feeling" prior to the incident. Thus, as Seano says, "Bad things happen in the mountains, even when you're not operating near your limit."
Hindsight is 20-20.
My experience would have the line drawn lower than 3rd class. I was with a great partner that day, as well.

Sunny1 is minimizing her fortitude and guts that day. She kept a positive attitude the whole way down - something that I'm not sure I could have done in similar circumstances.

Jay, If I have to be in a fix, I'm so glad I was with someone of your caliber. Thank you. Perhaps I seemed positive, because I wasn't able to open my jaw to speak!

[Jay521]

Perhaps I seemed positive, because I wasn't able to open my jaw to speak!

I think you were growling at me through those clenched teeth, tho...

[-wren-]

In case anyone wasn't convinced how subjective this distinction is, I have this screenshot I had taken a few months ago from Alex Honnold's Instagram. Gotta love a nice enjoyable 13 pitch 5.11 scramble! So fun you gotta stop and take a few pics, apparently!
Screenshot_20220627-002533_Instagram.jpg

Hahaha yeah that checks out

[-wren-]

Glad to have started this discussion. I definitely wasn’t coming in with my personal definition as the definitive answer and it’s really nice to hear others’ distinctions. I think we can all agree that it’s extremely subjective and trying to draw a hard line, while maybe useful for technical terms, is sort of impossible. Language is also quite limiting especially for intense experiences like these. At the end of the day I think this just reiterates how important it is to do your homework and really know/trust both yourself and your partner(s) before you venture into committing terrain.

[14ercooper]

While it's hard to draw a solid line, mine is apparently somewhere between "I scrambled up the class 3 variation to the summit of Kit Carson" and "I solo'd the red gully on Crestone Peak" - even though both are in the class 3 realm, somewhere in the middle is where my verbage changes.

[bdloftin77]

I wonder if a deeper question here is, "How far should I push it?"

I've also done some unroped exposed 5th class routes in the past where I immediately thought, "I probably shouldn't have done that." If we get into territory like that, we've definitely gone too far.

Even if I'm a bit below my upper limit/not overly pushing it, I've wondered recently, "Why am I doing this?" Is it for the thrill? The challenge? The adventure? Pushing too hard just for "the adventure" isn't worth it in the long run for me, as I have a family who love and depend on me. If I want extreme exposure and challenging moves, my trad-climbing friends are only a text or phone call away and would gladly join up for a safer roped climb.

For others, pushing right up to their limits is an acceptable risk (eg Alex Honnold). For others still, why even risk unroped high exposure class 3/4 at all? And for others, it's somewhere in between. These recent threads have had me thinking more about what my current risk tolerance is, and why. And if that needs some adjustment.

A summary self-reflection question: Just because I probably can do this, should I?

[TomPierce]

Wren,

This topic came up with my partner on this weekend's trip to the Gore, thus timely.

You climbed up and got into tougher terrain than you'd planned on, got into what sounds like fatal fall terrain. No "artillery" at hand, i.e. rope/gear/rock shoes, etc. If you climb long enough, esp in alpine terrain where the route options are numerous, yeah it happens. Glad it turned out OK, all you can really do is conduct a mental autopsy of the event and maybe draw some lessons from it.

But I'll add that this whole "free soloing" thing is being held up as the gold standard of climbing, of course fed by the Hollywood hype of the Honnold phenomenon. IMO Honnold is a freak of nature, absolutely a superb climber way, way beyond my skills (when I had any...). He has a an extraordninary ability to focus and block out fear; genetic? But of course his climbing story has not yet concluded. I wish him well, but the list of free soloists who have died is legion, and growing (e.g. Derek Hersey, John Bachar, Vik Hendrickson, Bob Steele, Dwight Bishop, Jimmy Jewell, Tony Wilmot, John Taylor, Brad Gobright, etc.) And those are just the higher profile climbers; lesser known climbers have died free soloing, some closer to home. Personally I think free soloing is a rejection of human nature, i.e. to think one can do it frequently and never make a mistake? Hmm, not so sure about that. Hersey was phenomenal, climbing the Diamond up and down 3 times in a day. Yet he died on a much easier (5.9?) route in Yosemite. Don't get me wrong, I've soloed 5th class, I'm not against the concept (of the nearly 60 ranked 5th class peaks I've done, I'd guess maybe 15% were solo, fwiw). But I'm pretty selective about when/where I do it, and I've backed off a lot of climbs when it just wasn't there. Big believer in developing a 6th sense; IMO always follow it. I haven't on occasion and have paid some consequences.

I also wonder if younger climbers are so drawn by the free soloing mania that they don't realize it's not an aspirational standard, but instead a crossroads. Choose your path wisely. If you ever have the misfortune to attend a climbing funeral I'm pretty sure it will leave a lasting mark on your psyche. This is a dangerous sport. Falls have consequences, both for the fallen and for those left behind.

I find myself using a rope and partners more frequently now. Candidly that's age creeping up on me, but also I just like the security and I've always liked fiddling with gear. Just me.

Be safe out there, Wren.

-Tom

[Boggy B]

it's not an aspirational standard

Well said.

One important aspect of Honnold's shtick that seems to be misunderstood is as Tom suggested: Though he solos harder than most of us will ever climb, he doesn't get too excited doing it (his brain is broken, but the concept still applies). So if your heart rate is spiking on some 5.easy with exposure, you're taking a bigger risk than Honnold coolly hiking 13b over millions of air. Unfortunately I think the impression made by the sensationalization of his feats is what a badass he is and not why your average hard climber won't survive long doing the same things.