Tales of Refinishing

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Chicago Transplant
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Re: Tales of Refinishing

Post by Chicago Transplant »

13656 I know I didn't get because it was a foggy day when I was up there so I wouldn't have though to check it. Ellingwood we were still on the ridge crest on our attempt at LaPlata until past the "new" summit, so good there. When the summits are clear, I walk around and tag other candidates all the time. I am confident that anything that is moving only by a little bit I would have already tagged the highest point in my obsessive compulsive tendency to touch every rock that looks higher. For one, I don't use a GPS on above tree line peaks so I don't have a coordinate for the summit, I poke around until I feel I got enough candidate rocks accounted for. (Except for Fortress because of that gash! Hopefully that one stays put! :shock: )

Way back in the day I went out to Whitney's technical block because it just looked higher from the then accepted high point (before anyone had that block as the summit) I had my hands on the high point but couldn't find a way to get my foot up, came back with rock shoes another time to stand on it. I think most of us are the same way and small adjustments aren't going to do anything to our completions of alpine peaks, maybe a few treed summits where you can't view the alternates may be in need of a redo. That is how I found 9385's summit was wrong. For some reason I decided to go a little farther west past the accepted summit to get a view of the road and when I cleared a grove of trees a potentially higher summit caught my eye so I went over there. I PM'd John and Ben and sure enough, that other point was higher. As the lists update, we'll do what we need to do, but there are also a lot of peaks that if they move, you're still going to be good.
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Re: Tales of Refinishing

Post by bdloftin77 »

Chicago Transplant wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:31 pm Way back in the day I went out to Whitney's technical block because it just looked higher from the then accepted high point (before anyone had that block as the summit) I had my hands on the high point but couldn't find a way to get my foot up, came back with rock shoes another time to stand on it. I think most of us are the same way and small adjustments aren't going to do anything to our completions of alpine peaks, maybe a few treed summits where you can't view the alternates may be in need of a redo. That is how I found 9385's summit was wrong. For some reason I decided to go a little farther west past the accepted summit to get a view of the road and when I cleared a grove of trees a potentially higher summit caught my eye so I went over there. I PM'd John and Ben and sure enough, that other point was higher. As the lists update, we'll do what we need to do, but there are also a lot of peaks that if they move, you're still going to be good.
Yeah, John thought that the biggest changes might occur with below treeline peaks. Most of the above treeline ones, especially 12ers+, have been investigated in-situ and many discrepancies have already been sorted out. Though hand-leveling isn't perfect, and there could still be some changes. Sub-summits not visible from each other, as you mentioned, would be the most probable changes.
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Re: Tales of Refinishing

Post by Chicago Transplant »

Teresa Gergen wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:58 am I didn't do the original analysis for 13656, but because someone else said the same thing to me after climbing it, I re-did it myself, and got the same result as the original analyzer. I've already failed on this one and will try it again from a different route, but moraine and steep loose crap is much more difficult and dangerous for me than 5th class at this point, and I am not happy about this addition. If someone wants to offer me a rope for the class 2 scree gully so I have something to pull against with my arms when my leg doesn't work, hey, let me know. I already tore a meniscus this summer on the other steep loose 13er crap I managed to get done without somehow incurring worse damage, and have been climbing with a knee brace since June.
Our plan is the NW ridge of the old summit from Zapata, my friend I am going with (Oct 1 or 2) tried that in winter before and turned back for weather, expecting Class 3 based on his winter attempt. I think he wants to traverse over to Twin Peaks but I am not sure that ridge works (might be a stiff step near Ellingwood Pt), back up plan would be traverse to California and down it's west ridge to avoid descending choss slopes.
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Re: Tales of Refinishing

Post by Teresa Gergen »

I tried the south slopes of 13656 from Zapata and they were sliding out from under me - rock of all sizes, from scree up, just moving from under, above, and below me on the slope. Maybe because this year was so wet. I didn't go up very far before bailing. And the creek crossings were all I could manage in July; I'm sure they're better now.

The traverse from California would probably take me about 15-18 hours. I'm expecting the WW route up the scree gully would take me at least 12 hours from the 4WD TH, potentially more.
Last edited by Teresa Gergen on Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tales of Refinishing

Post by Mtnman200 »

Teresa Gergen wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:55 pm I tried the south slopes of 13656 from Zapata and they were sliding out from under me - rock of all sizes, from scree up, just moving from under, above, and below me on the slope. Maybe because this year was so wet. I didn't go up very far before bailing. And the creek crossings were all I could manage in July; I'm sure they're better now.
You might find it easier to approach from Lily Lake: https://www.14ers.com/php14ers/triprepo ... trip=21854
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Re: Tales of Refinishing

Post by Chicago Transplant »

Teresa Gergen wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:55 pm I tried the south slopes of 13656 from Zapata and they were sliding out from under me - rock of all sizes, from scree up, just moving from under, above, and below me on the slope. Maybe because this year was so wet. I didn't go up very far before bailing. And the creek crossings were all I could manage in July; I'm sure they're better now.
I had another friend just do that route over Labor Day and had nothing nice to say about that slope. I am hoping the ridges will be good! The north side of the old summit back to North Zapata might not be as bad either from what this May report had to say but looks talusy in the lower basin:
https://www.14ers.com/php14ers/peakstat ... cnum=22863
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Re: Tales of Refinishing

Post by Boggy B »

bdloftin77 wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:13 am
Chicago Transplant wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:37 am Boggy:

Yeah, we got stormed off the Bells traverse in 2007 when I was working on the 14ers. I of course got sidetracked by 13ers after that and just somehow never got back there for that one!

13172 was looked at, 295' of prominence and a summit elevation 13183. Its in the "Other Colorado Analysis - Candidates Currently Not in LOJ" (currently 3rd item from the bottom, #834) in this link:

https://listsofjohn.com/lidar/lidar.php
Yeah, both John and I looked at that one. If we ever find better saddle coverage, that one would definitely be worth taking a second look at.

Boggy, I saw you did Turret Ridge. Congrats! How was it?

Speaking of harder 12ers, looks like there's still no LoJ ascents of The Castles East yet.
I remember our discussion of the 13172 analysis concluded the deepest part of the saddle may not have been picked up, and I'm hoping that's the case since it looks worth doing.

Turret Ridge, which was incredible fun, definitely repeatable, and ranks among the best summits I've experienced, actually highlighted for me a conceivable issue with LiDAR saddle analysis. The ledge on the "ridge" which serves as the belay for the traverse pitch has a 5 or 6 foot notch where adjoining segments of the mountain meet (also forming the crux chimney), and which is overhung on the high side such that you can't see the floor of it while standing on the ledge. So a laser pulse from many overhead angles wouldn't ever find its way to the bottom of the notch. Of course that point isn't the saddle, but it is a type of saddle and an interesting problem.

Regarding moved summits, I'm sure I'm not alone in my compulsion to visit the highest point of the feature regardless of what coordinates are given by LoJ or other sites, often to the frustration of partners (usually wife, because she doesn't care). I do and will continue to check my GPS tracks against new info but so far there haven't been any surprises in that department. Certainly more of an issue below treeline as suggested.
Chicago Transplant wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:47 pm Our plan is the NW ridge of the old summit from Zapata
This is the route I took. I won't spoil the particulars but I don't think there's any mandatory class 3 on the entire route, or maybe a very brief section before reaching old 660. From the summit I went directly to Zapata Lake which involved a load of annoying talus. The trail down from there is spectacular.
Last edited by Boggy B on Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tales of Refinishing

Post by desertdog »

Teresa Gergen wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:55 pm I tried the south slopes of 13656 from Zapata and they were sliding out from under me - rock of all sizes, from scree up, just moving from under, above, and below me on the slope. Maybe because this year was so wet. I didn't go up very far before bailing. And the creek crossings were all I could manage in July; I'm sure they're better now.

The traverse from California would probably take me about 15-18 hours. I'm expecting the WW route up the scree gully would take me at least 12 hours from the 4WD TH, potentially more.
I did the Zapata route a couple months ago too and did manage to summit. Not really fun to say the least. On the way down we found some grass ramps that put us out all the way at the back of the basin, near C2. That way was a bit better and may work going up too. Good luck!
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Re: Tales of Refinishing

Post by Teresa Gergen »

Thanks Mtnman200. That's the route I originally used for 13660 (when I had a functional body), and I'd planned to do it again but was afraid running the ridges would take me longer than the gully route.
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Re: Tales of Refinishing

Post by Vadim34 »

Total of nine peaks were added. By far Peak Eight and Peak Ten were the best additions to the list. It was great to visit those areas again, both from the approaches I haven’t used before and it was a lot fun. I don’t mind peaks that were added, sucks when the peaks we have done, go away from the list. Cool thread and congrats to the refinishers!
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