Oh I was just paraphrasing his Denali story from “Eiger Dreams”. The actual quote is, “The ten minute Denali show runs heavily to images of thundering avalanches, storm-flattened tents, hands deformed by horrible frostbite blisters, and grotesquely twisted bodies being pulled from the depths of enormous crevasses. Like the military’s VD movies, the show is graphic enough to make even the thickest skin crawl. As a tool for promoting sensible behavior, it would appear that it’s also just as ineffective.”
NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range
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- Bale
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Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey
- Bale
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Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range
Another danger in going for it from 14k that the op’s article addresses is the fact that you can be pretty damn fit in the lower 48, only to have your ass kicked above 15k. I have witnessed this first hand.
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey
Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range
Sorry to be a jerk, but IMO it's poor form to turn what started out as a sobering warning against doing this very thing into a locker room daydreaming session.SchralpTheGnar wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 7:11 am Has anyone here done the push from 14k in a day or skied Denali? That article actually makes me want to try to do it.
"You can't really dust for vomit." - Nigel Tufnel
- Bale
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Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range
Anyone remember that skier about ten years ago who tumbled like 3000ft down the Messner or Orient Express and emerged with nary a scratch?
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey
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Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range
Is there a helicopter service that drops tourists like myself at the top so I don't have to deal with all the riff raff on the mountain?
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Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range
I hate dealing with peasants who have to go places on foot
Those who travel to mountain-tops are half in love with themselves and half in love with oblivion
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Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range
For sure. When our team members did it we'd spent a solid week sleeping at 14K, going to 17K (me) or 19K(them) on an aborted summit attempt. They then went down to 14K for a couple of days to regroup before doing the 14 > summit leg. Fwiw, I'd been to 19K prior to that trip. Not sure why the NPS seems to be picking on Colorado experience, but when I was there a lot of climbers had 14er experience but were from low altitude states. But a good warning to heed, although from what I saw the traditional 17K camp looked like a miserable place to try and get decent sleep, e.g. I put up a Swiss guy in my tent who had his tent obliterated by the wind at 17K.
-Tom
- Bale
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Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range
Yeah Tom, both times I was there the 14k camp was like the Bahamas compared to 17k, but I would still recommend putting in that high camp unless you are very confident in your high altitude performance.TomPierce wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 10:18 amFor sure. When our team members did it we'd spent a solid week sleeping at 14K, going to 17K (me) or 19K(them) on an aborted summit attempt. They then went down to 14K for a couple of days to regroup before doing the 14 > summit leg. Fwiw, I'd been to 19K prior to that trip. Not sure why the NPS seems to be picking on Colorado experience, but when I was there a lot of climbers had 14er experience but were from low altitude states. But a good warning to heed, although from what I saw the traditional 17K camp looked like a miserable place to try and get decent sleep, e.g. I put up a Swiss guy in my tent who had his tent obliterated by the wind at 17K.
-Tom
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey
Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range
I'm not sure on the "colorado experience" portion either. I totally glossed over that word the first time since they had "gain 7,000'" in a day. Which most colorado people don't do. I immediately thought it was california or washington climbers, who often live closer to sea level and do put in bigger days (paradise ranger station sits at 5400').TomPierce wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 10:18 amFor sure. When our team members did it we'd spent a solid week sleeping at 14K, going to 17K (me) or 19K(them) on an aborted summit attempt. They then went down to 14K for a couple of days to regroup before doing the 14 > summit leg. Fwiw, I'd been to 19K prior to that trip. Not sure why the NPS seems to be picking on Colorado experience, but when I was there a lot of climbers had 14er experience but were from low altitude states. But a good warning to heed, although from what I saw the traditional 17K camp looked like a miserable place to try and get decent sleep, e.g. I put up a Swiss guy in my tent who had his tent obliterated by the wind at 17K.
-Tom
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Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range
Could be just an internet phenomenon, but when I see someone someplace like r/mountaineering who thinks that walking up a class 1/2 14er in the middle of summer is a significant alpine achievement, they're usually from CO. A lotta folks, here more than other places, don't realize that a half-dozen hikes, trudging up an easy trail to 14k with no weight under clear skies, doesn't make you a seasoned mountaineer. At least in the popular Cascades, it's pretty hard to climb without knowing that there are usually a lot of different routes up a peak, and occasionally seeing/meeting people doing harder stuff that you. Here, people walk up Elbert, see that they've reached the top of the state, and think they've done the hardest thing there is.
- Been_Jammin
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Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range
The ol' pecking order of mountaineers: Himalayan mountaineers > Alaskan mountaineers > Cascade mountaineers > Colorado mountaineers > Anybody > California and Texans.
I'm sure I'm missing a few rungs in the hierarchy.
I'm sure I'm missing a few rungs in the hierarchy.
- Bale
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Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range
Ha, this made me chuckle. You’re pretty close, but ya gotta have Canadian Rockies mountaineers between Alaskan and Cascade. The real Alpine climbers have got to be up there too, French, Italian, German, and Swiss.Been_Jammin wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:58 am The ol' pecking order of mountaineers: Himalayan mountaineers > Alaskan mountaineers > Cascade mountaineers > Colorado mountaineers > Anybody > California and Texans.
I'm sure I'm missing a few rungs in the hierarchy.
Also, Poland and Slovenia produce some real badasses!
Last edited by Bale on Fri May 28, 2021 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey