NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range

14ers in California and Washington state or any other peak in the USA
Forum rules
  • This is a mountaineering forum, so please keep your posts on-topic. Posts do not all have to be related to the 14ers but should at least be mountaineering-related.
  • Personal attacks and confrontational behavior will result in removal from the forum at the discretion of the administrators.
  • Do not use this forum to advertise, sell photos or other products or promote a commercial website.
  • Posts will be removed at the discretion of the site administrator or moderator(s), including: Troll posts, posts pushing political views or religious beliefs, and posts with the purpose of instigating conflict within the forum.
For more details, please see the Terms of Use you agreed to when joining the forum.
User avatar
Bale
Posts: 266
Joined: 6/9/2020
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range

Post by Bale »

justiner wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 8:30 am
Bale wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 6:31 am That is well written and informative, and will probably be about as effective as telling teenagers to abstain from sex. (Sort of a Krakauer rip off).
Krakauer’s piece about the Denali season (and Ivan the Slovenian or whatever) sounds pretty similar to what the NPS is saying here - or have things changed? Is it the popularity of doing I’d from 14k’? TBH that does sounds pretty attractive.
Oh I was just paraphrasing his Denali story from “Eiger Dreams”. The actual quote is, “The ten minute Denali show runs heavily to images of thundering avalanches, storm-flattened tents, hands deformed by horrible frostbite blisters, and grotesquely twisted bodies being pulled from the depths of enormous crevasses. Like the military’s VD movies, the show is graphic enough to make even the thickest skin crawl. As a tool for promoting sensible behavior, it would appear that it’s also just as ineffective.”
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey
User avatar
Bale
Posts: 266
Joined: 6/9/2020
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range

Post by Bale »

Another danger in going for it from 14k that the op’s article addresses is the fact that you can be pretty damn fit in the lower 48, only to have your ass kicked above 15k. I have witnessed this first hand.
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey
User avatar
druid2112
Posts: 295
Joined: 9/7/2012
14ers: 46  6 
13ers: 32 5
Trip Reports (7)
 

Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range

Post by druid2112 »

SchralpTheGnar wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 7:11 am Has anyone here done the push from 14k in a day or skied Denali? That article actually makes me want to try to do it.
Sorry to be a jerk, but IMO it's poor form to turn what started out as a sobering warning against doing this very thing into a locker room daydreaming session.
"You can't really dust for vomit." - Nigel Tufnel
User avatar
Bale
Posts: 266
Joined: 6/9/2020
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range

Post by Bale »

Anyone remember that skier about ten years ago who tumbled like 3000ft down the Messner or Orient Express and emerged with nary a scratch?
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey
User avatar
12ersRule
Posts: 2263
Joined: 6/18/2007
14ers: 58 
13ers: 157
Trip Reports (4)
 

Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range

Post by 12ersRule »

Is there a helicopter service that drops tourists like myself at the top so I don't have to deal with all the riff raff on the mountain?
ker0uac
Posts: 547
Joined: 8/30/2016
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range

Post by ker0uac »

12ersRule wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 10:06 am Is there a helicopter service that drops tourists like myself at the top so I don't have to deal with all the riff raff on the mountain?
:lol: I hate dealing with peasants who have to go places on foot
Those who travel to mountain-tops are half in love with themselves and half in love with oblivion
TomPierce
Posts: 2735
Joined: 11/21/2007
Trip Reports (2)
 

Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range

Post by TomPierce »

Bale wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 9:24 am Another danger in going for it from 14k that the op’s article addresses is the fact that you can be pretty damn fit in the lower 48, only to have your ass kicked above 15k. I have witnessed this first hand.
For sure. When our team members did it we'd spent a solid week sleeping at 14K, going to 17K (me) or 19K(them) on an aborted summit attempt. They then went down to 14K for a couple of days to regroup before doing the 14 > summit leg. Fwiw, I'd been to 19K prior to that trip. Not sure why the NPS seems to be picking on Colorado experience, but when I was there a lot of climbers had 14er experience but were from low altitude states. But a good warning to heed, although from what I saw the traditional 17K camp looked like a miserable place to try and get decent sleep, e.g. I put up a Swiss guy in my tent who had his tent obliterated by the wind at 17K.

-Tom
User avatar
Bale
Posts: 266
Joined: 6/9/2020
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range

Post by Bale »

TomPierce wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 10:18 am
Bale wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 9:24 am Another danger in going for it from 14k that the op’s article addresses is the fact that you can be pretty damn fit in the lower 48, only to have your ass kicked above 15k. I have witnessed this first hand.
For sure. When our team members did it we'd spent a solid week sleeping at 14K, going to 17K (me) or 19K(them) on an aborted summit attempt. They then went down to 14K for a couple of days to regroup before doing the 14 > summit leg. Fwiw, I'd been to 19K prior to that trip. Not sure why the NPS seems to be picking on Colorado experience, but when I was there a lot of climbers had 14er experience but were from low altitude states. But a good warning to heed, although from what I saw the traditional 17K camp looked like a miserable place to try and get decent sleep, e.g. I put up a Swiss guy in my tent who had his tent obliterated by the wind at 17K.

-Tom
Yeah Tom, both times I was there the 14k camp was like the Bahamas compared to 17k, but I would still recommend putting in that high camp unless you are very confident in your high altitude performance.
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey
User avatar
Conor
Posts: 1112
Joined: 9/2/2014
14ers: 41  6  6 
13ers: 51 1 1
Trip Reports (7)
 

Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range

Post by Conor »

TomPierce wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 10:18 am
Bale wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 9:24 am Another danger in going for it from 14k that the op’s article addresses is the fact that you can be pretty damn fit in the lower 48, only to have your ass kicked above 15k. I have witnessed this first hand.
For sure. When our team members did it we'd spent a solid week sleeping at 14K, going to 17K (me) or 19K(them) on an aborted summit attempt. They then went down to 14K for a couple of days to regroup before doing the 14 > summit leg. Fwiw, I'd been to 19K prior to that trip. Not sure why the NPS seems to be picking on Colorado experience, but when I was there a lot of climbers had 14er experience but were from low altitude states. But a good warning to heed, although from what I saw the traditional 17K camp looked like a miserable place to try and get decent sleep, e.g. I put up a Swiss guy in my tent who had his tent obliterated by the wind at 17K.

-Tom
I'm not sure on the "colorado experience" portion either. I totally glossed over that word the first time since they had "gain 7,000'" in a day. Which most colorado people don't do. I immediately thought it was california or washington climbers, who often live closer to sea level and do put in bigger days (paradise ranger station sits at 5400').
Aphelion
Posts: 166
Joined: 10/22/2017
14ers: 58  17 
13ers: 48
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range

Post by Aphelion »

TomPierce wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 10:18 am ... Not sure why the NPS seems to be picking on Colorado experience, but when I was there a lot of climbers had 14er experience but were from low altitude states ...
Could be just an internet phenomenon, but when I see someone someplace like r/mountaineering who thinks that walking up a class 1/2 14er in the middle of summer is a significant alpine achievement, they're usually from CO. A lotta folks, here more than other places, don't realize that a half-dozen hikes, trudging up an easy trail to 14k with no weight under clear skies, doesn't make you a seasoned mountaineer. At least in the popular Cascades, it's pretty hard to climb without knowing that there are usually a lot of different routes up a peak, and occasionally seeing/meeting people doing harder stuff that you. Here, people walk up Elbert, see that they've reached the top of the state, and think they've done the hardest thing there is.
User avatar
Been_Jammin
Posts: 153
Joined: 2/5/2019
14ers: 58  1  1 
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range

Post by Been_Jammin »

The ol' pecking order of mountaineers: Himalayan mountaineers > Alaskan mountaineers > Cascade mountaineers > Colorado mountaineers > Anybody > California and Texans.

I'm sure I'm missing a few rungs in the hierarchy.
User avatar
Bale
Posts: 266
Joined: 6/9/2020
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: NPS Denali Dispatch: Overconfidence and Inexperience in the Alaska Range

Post by Bale »

Been_Jammin wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 11:58 am The ol' pecking order of mountaineers: Himalayan mountaineers > Alaskan mountaineers > Cascade mountaineers > Colorado mountaineers > Anybody > California and Texans.

I'm sure I'm missing a few rungs in the hierarchy.
Ha, this made me chuckle. You’re pretty close, but ya gotta have Canadian Rockies mountaineers between Alaskan and Cascade. The real Alpine climbers have got to be up there too, French, Italian, German, and Swiss.
Also, Poland and Slovenia produce some real badasses!
Last edited by Bale on Fri May 28, 2021 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey
Post Reply