SeanO is going for the Alps 4000m FKT

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seano
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Re: SeanO is going for the Alps 4000m FKT

Post by seano »

Scott P wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:49 am
mtn_nut wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:05 amThis summer, he has decided he is going to try to set a fastest known time (FKT) for the self supported climb of all the 4000m peaks of the Alps this summer, biking between all of the peaks.

If anyone is interested in following along, there is some more information about his plan here on the attempt - http://www.drdirtbag.com/2020/03/05/hum ... peaks-fkt/
Which list is he using by chance? There are a lot of 4000 alpine peak list out there and they all use different numbers of peaks.

His link says the following, but it doesn't say which list he is using:

The UIAA list contains 82 4000-meter “peaks.” However, many of these are minor sub-summits included for subjective reasons. Using a threshhold of 100 meters prominence, there are 50 Alpine 4000-meter peaks. See Wikipedia for more.

Anyway, good luck to him on his endevour.
Sorry, I should have been clear about that: I'm going for the 50 prominent peaks. If it were just a matter or one or two traditional unranked peaks, like El Diente and North Maroon, I'd use the UIAA list, but their 82 include some truly ridiculous bumps, e.g. Punta Giordani, with its 5 meters of prominence and 100 meters of isolation from the next-highest summit.

I agonized about this, since some of the peaks not meeting the arbitrary threshold are legit, e.g. Nordend and the other Lyskamm summit. Based on the FKT site, there is a history of climbing both the UIAA 82 and the "principle" summits, so I feel justified in going for the latter. I think a self-powered, self-supported climb of the principle summits is elegant and manageable. For whatever reasons, the rules around this record aren't as well-established as those around CO records.
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Re: SeanO is going for the Alps 4000m FKT

Post by TomPierce »

Good luck, seano! An impressive undertaking for sure.

-Tom
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Re: SeanO is going for the Alps 4000m FKT

Post by Monster5 »

The rules and established records seem pretty clear. The "principle summits" still included a list of 75/82 as mentioned here. This used 35 m prominence and was established before the UIAA 82 list, rather than after establishment as you are proposing. I haven't seen a precedent for a new 50/82 list based on replacing one locally-established subjective system with another subjective system from an entirely different continent with prominence criteria relaxed by ~3x and a 40% reduction in peaks.

I realize that peakbagger enthusiasts seem to be editing Wikipedia lists to match their goal posts and referencing back to said Peakbagger, but UIAA seems more applicable for the Alps. I've seen others define it as "summit" = 30 m prominence, "mountain" = 300 m prominence. Imagine if Killian Jornet came to Colorado, climbed all of our 14ers with 300 m prominence (30/58 peaks), then claimed the 14ers FKT. That seems an appropriate comparison, if an illogical application of metric/imperial units there (ironically similar to applying our 300 ft rule/ 100 m proxy to 4000ers).

To be clear on the self supported - the Alps' extensive helicopter-supplied mountain hut system is fair game, including all food, water, sleeping accommodations, etc? Are there any huts you would consider off limits, e.g. Cosmiques, Torina, Boccallate and others serving as essentially aid stations halfway up?

Would you say the only real differences between your attempt and prior attempts include:
1. No support vehicle off the mountain (hut support okay)

This justifies redefining the accomplishment as follows?
1. 50 summits instead of 82 or even 75 principle summits

Now, I don't mean for my comments to come off as critical and fully realize this forum's propensity for backlash. But when published "FKT" and asking for public support ($) components come into the picture, I think it is important to be exceedingly clear about one's criteria and true differences from like events.
seano wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:19 am Sorry, I should have been clear about that: I'm going for the 50 prominent peaks. If it were just a matter or one or two traditional unranked peaks, like El Diente and North Maroon, I'd use the UIAA list, but their 82 include some truly ridiculous bumps, e.g. Punta Giordani, with its 5 meters of prominence and 100 meters of isolation from the next-highest summit.

I agonized about this, since some of the peaks not meeting the arbitrary threshold are legit, e.g. Nordend and the other Lyskamm summit. Based on the FKT site, there is a history of climbing both the UIAA 82 and the "principle" summits, so I feel justified in going for the latter. I think a self-powered, self-supported climb of the principle summits is elegant and manageable. For whatever reasons, the rules around this record aren't as well-established as those around CO records.
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Re: SeanO is going for the Alps 4000m FKT

Post by justiner »

Monster5 wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:19 am To be clear on the self supported - the Alps' extensive helicopter-supplied mountain hut system is fair game, including all food, water, sleeping accommodations, etc? Are there any huts you would consider off limits, e.g. Cosmiques, Torina, Boccallate and others serving as essentially aid stations halfway up?
SeanO, you should write all your rules down, but for the above IMHO, anything that's commercially available to others is fair game. Forgoing using huts even to just sleep in sounds unrealistic. You can use the rules I wrote for my stuff as a guideline, although there may be some specifics to the Alps/Europe that would things different. It's a more civilized place, I hear :)
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Re: SeanO is going for the Alps 4000m FKT

Post by FireOnTheMountain »

Sick
Everyday is a G r A t E f U L Day here in the ID...?
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Re: SeanO is going for the Alps 4000m FKT

Post by seano »

justiner wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:33 pm
Monster5 wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:19 am To be clear on the self supported - the Alps' extensive helicopter-supplied mountain hut system is fair game, including all food, water, sleeping accommodations, etc? Are there any huts you would consider off limits, e.g. Cosmiques, Torina, Boccallate and others serving as essentially aid stations halfway up?
SeanO, you should write all your rules down, but for the above IMHO, anything that's commercially available to others is fair game. Forgoing using huts even to just sleep in sounds unrealistic. You can use the rules I wrote for my stuff as a guideline, although there may be some specifics to the Alps/Europe that would things different. It's a more civilized place, I hear :)
I'll definitely write down precise rules if it looks like this thing will actually happen. I have pretty much your rules in mind, i.e. if it's available to anyone, it's fair game. The fact that there are huts serving three-course meals all over the mountains takes some getting used to coming from the States. I did the Alps "American-style" last time, i.e. sleeping in my car at trailheads and making absolutely no use of the huts, for which I got some funny looks.
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Re: SeanO is going for the Alps 4000m FKT

Post by justiner »

Really looking forward to following along. Loved reading your blog over the years. Hopefully current events will simmer down. Good luck!
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Re: SeanO is going for the Alps 4000m FKT

Post by seano »

justiner wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:36 pm Really looking forward to following along. Loved reading your blog over the years. Hopefully current events will simmer down. Good luck!
Thanks! I'm looking forward to your self-powered 14er book. The FKT is probably out of reach at my age, but it would be fun to do them at my own pace now that I find myself riding more.
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Re: SeanO is going for the Alps 4000m FKT

Post by spiderman »

I like your idea to climb just the "Principal" summits. HYOH.
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Re: SeanO is going for the Alps 4000m FKT

Post by jmanner »

Beat the Swiss Machine? Seems dubious
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Re: SeanO is going for the Alps 4000m FKT

Post by seano »

jmanner wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:01 am Beat the Swiss Machine? Seems dubious
Based on his book, Ueli was doing a lot of playing around during his record, e.g. climbing at least one peak with his wife, doing some others with a friend. He made it sound like "type I fun."
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Re: SeanO is going for the Alps 4000m FKT

Post by FireOnTheMountain »

Didn't Ueli's partner die during one of the climbs?
Everyday is a G r A t E f U L Day here in the ID...?
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