Which is Better for Acclimating?

[mikefromcraig]

Acclimatization is a process whereby you break down and then build back stronger.

I don't have a horse in this race, but this statement is categorically false.

So then what is it?

You do acknowledge that when you go up high it puts your body at a diminished state, and then when you come back down you build back up, therefore gaining resistance to the altitude, right?

Finally, was there any piece of advice that I offered that you believe to be incorrect?

[mikefromcraig]

I think the following hypothetical will help illustrate there is more agreement than disagreement on this issue.

Imagine a mountain with a base camp, camp 1, and then the summit. Further imagine that there is an elevator that takes you from base camp to camp 1. You are given the following two options:

1) Go to camp 1 for 8 hours, come back down and sleep at base camp for one or two nights, then summit on the next day.

2) Go to camp 1 to sleep overnight. Then wake up and go for the summit.

I think (hope) that we all recognize option 1 is better for the reasons I have illustrated.

Note that there are no mountains with elevators, that's why this is called a hypothetical. That aspect was added to not confuse people with issues such as weather and timing. This way it isolates the issue we are discussing, acclimatization.

Taking the hypothetical as presented, nobody thinks option two would increase the probabilities of a successful summit, right?

[mtree]

Acclimatization is a process whereby you break down and then build back stronger.

I don't have a horse in this race, but this statement is categorically false.

Hey. This is how exercise programs get started which include supplements, books, and mirrors!

[rijaca]

She blinded me with science….

https://www.princeton.edu/~oa/safety/altitude.html

https://www.usariem.army.mil/assets/doc ... nguide.pdf

https://www.irunfar.com/into-thin-air-t ... cclimation

[dan0rama]

The acclimatization starts immediately once P02 drops, so technically spending any amount of time in high altitude will help with acclimatization. Should you sleep at high altitude the night before? I think the answer depends on whether you are able to get a good night sleep. If you can't, then the acclimatization progress you made might be entirely offset by the lack of sleep. I am usually able to sleep well even in the early stages of acclimatization to 18k+ ft.

There are lots of reasons for an alpine start, and you are not covering all of them. Mountaineers don't leave high camp at 12am because they are irrationally obsessed with waking up early. It's also so the ice/snow is firm! Sun+Ice = no good.

[mikefromcraig]

Dan, I just want to confirm that we are in agreement regarding my posted hypothetical.

[mikefromcraig]

The acclimatization starts immediately once P02 drops, so technically spending any amount of time in high altitude will help with acclimatization. Should you sleep at high altitude the night before? I think the answer depends on whether you are able to get a good night sleep. If you can't, then the acclimatization progress you made might be entirely offset by the lack of sleep. I am usually able to sleep well even in the early stages of acclimatization to 18k+ ft.

There are lots of reasons for an alpine start, and you are not covering all of them. Mountaineers don't leave high camp at 12am because they are irrationally obsessed with waking up early. It's also so the ice/snow is firm! Sun+Ice = no good.

Yes, ice firmness is an additional reason for an alpine start. Also, if you need to get back down early to meet with your probation officer, that's another good reason. My point is that many people just blindly think the earlier the start the better, thus starting off for no good reason in poor condition due to lack of sleep.

[dan0rama]

I am not gonna address the hypothetical bc you are discounting the effort required to climb up and down. Also, you are building in rest time in option 1. Of course rest always helps, just not for the reason you are implying.

"Acclimatization is a process whereby you break down and then build back stronger." - I am not sure you understand what happens to the body in altitude. Our blood cells become more efficient at transporting oxygen around. It's a complex adaptations not yet 100% understood, but you are not being built back stronger. You are just better at shuttling oxygen around. Also, this adaptation eventually goes away. How do you call that?

[HikerGuy]

Acclimatization is a process whereby you break down and then build back stronger.

I don't have a horse in this race, but this statement is categorically false.

So then what is it?

You do acknowledge that when you go up high it puts your body at a diminished state, and then when you come back down you build back up, therefore gaining resistance to the altitude, right?

There is no breakdown. The body continually adapts to high altitude exposure (to a point where it plateaus and that plateau can vary by individual). The going up high, resting down low or resting up high and exercising down low are just ways of managing the side effects of hypoxia as your body adapts.

She blinded me with science….
https://www.irunfar.com/into-thin-air-t ... cclimation

Excellent link!

[Craig Barlow]

Note that there are no mountains with elevators

This is categorically false. Whiteface Mountain in New York has an elevator.

[cedica]

There is no breakdown.

How can you even say something like that, of course there is! Haven't you seen how Bane broke down Batman's back, and then Batman rebuilt back stronger?

[climbingcue]

She blinded me with science….
https://www.irunfar.com/into-thin-air-t ... cclimation

Excellent link!

I agree, thank you for posting this link. I really enjoyed reading it.