Do people get used to exposure or is it determined at birth?

FAQ and threads for those just starting to hike the Colorado 14ers.
Forum rules
  • This is a mountaineering forum, so please keep your posts on-topic. Posts do not all have to be related to the 14ers but should at least be mountaineering-related.
  • Personal attacks and confrontational behavior will result in removal from the forum at the discretion of the administrators.
  • Do not use this forum to advertise, sell photos or other products or promote a commercial website.
  • Posts will be removed at the discretion of the site administrator or moderator(s), including: Troll posts, posts pushing political views or religious beliefs, and posts with the purpose of instigating conflict within the forum.
For more details, please see the Terms of Use you agreed to when joining the forum.
User avatar
greenonion
Posts: 1892
Joined: 10/3/2012
14ers: 50  1 
13ers: 2
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Do people get used to exposure or is it determined at birth?

Post by greenonion »

mgl45 wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:57 pm Thanks everyone for your advice and personal stories! That helps me a lot in figuring out how to proceed.
Everything from “you’re born with it” to “it takes multiple exposures to get there”. Thanks for the question. It’s super legitimate.
User avatar
Jorts
Posts: 1113
Joined: 4/12/2013
14ers: 58  4  2 
13ers: 102 11 5
Trip Reports (10)
 

Re: Do people get used to exposure or is it determined at birth?

Post by Jorts »

justiner wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:23 pm It also helps to recognize some less than ideaL responses (these should look familiar): Fight, Flight, Freeze, Fawn. None of these are usually what you want to experience when it comes to exposure. :lol:
Right. But recognizing when there's hazard and harnessing that into a hyperawareness comes with a little experience. Think of it as one notch back from being gripped. That hyperawareness leads to the flow state some people experience.
Traveling light is the only way to fly.
IG: @colorado_invasive
Strava: Brent Herring
timisimaginary
Posts: 777
Joined: 11/19/2017
14ers: 3 
13ers: 1
Trip Reports (2)
 

Re: Do people get used to exposure or is it determined at birth?

Post by timisimaginary »

Jorts wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 7:35 am
justiner wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:23 pm It also helps to recognize some less than ideaL responses (these should look familiar): Fight, Flight, Freeze, Fawn. None of these are usually what you want to experience when it comes to exposure. :lol:
Right. But recognizing when there's hazard and harnessing that into a hyperawareness comes with a little experience. Think of it as one notch back from being gripped. That hyperawareness leads to the flow state some people experience.
for others with an extreme fear of heights, the flow state they experience is in their pants.
"The decay and disintegration of this culture is astonishingly amusing if you're emotionally detached from it." - George Carlin
User avatar
dannyg23
Posts: 255
Joined: 1/31/2011
14ers: 54  43 
13ers: 21 1
Trip Reports (7)
 
Contact:

Re: Do people get used to exposure or is it determined at birth?

Post by dannyg23 »

People get used to exposure, and just about anything else you can think of, given time. We are born with only two innate fears, loud noises and more relevant to your question; falling. Being exposed to the possibility of falling is not the same as falling though. Given enough time in that type of environment basically anybody could teach themselves to become more tolerant of it. It is also true that basically everyone will experience some level of fear from it too, it is a spectrum. Given time, you will unwittingly move yourself along that spectrum to one end or another based on how that time gets spent.
User avatar
HikesInGeologicTime
Posts: 529
Joined: 10/28/2016
14ers: 58  8  18 
13ers: 60 2 11
Trip Reports (37)
 

Re: Do people get used to exposure or is it determined at birth?

Post by HikesInGeologicTime »

I’d agree with the idea that it’s important not not to get *too* comfortable with exposure or to dismiss your nerves outright. I spent years working on my comfort level with vertiginous situations and got so confident that I didn’t think Capitol’s Knife Edge was anything to write home about.

I fell 50’ off Pyramid the next summer. I knew the move I wanted to make was probably above my skill level; I just seriously underestimated how badly flubbing it would go. Suffice to say that post-accident exposure therapy has not gone particularly well...while I am committed to finishing the fourteeners, I am also committed to retiring from scrambling after I finally get them done (well, mostly...stupid state high points) simply because pushing my limits has gone from kind of a fun challenge to a near-continuous anxiety attack.

Bottom line of sorts: push yourself, but not TOO hard.
"I'm not selling drugs, dude. Drugs sell themselves. I'm selling stoke!"
- Guy at the table next to mine at Alta's Slopeside Cafe, in what I can't help but selfishly hope were (will be?) his verbatim words to the arresting officer(s)
User avatar
twhalm
Posts: 94
Joined: 8/23/2010
14ers: 57  2 
13ers: 43
Trip Reports (2)
 

Re: Do people get used to exposure or is it determined at birth?

Post by twhalm »

I am in the "you get used to it" camp.

Years ago after doing a few easier 14ers I distinctly remember wondering why anyone would ever do exposed or difficult 14ers. But I have found that my comfort zone grew with experience and by the time I did Capitol or Little Bear my comfort zone included the hazards those mountains offered.

That being said, it is not a static thing. I know my mental state fluctuates based on many factors and I have turned around on something I normally could have done due to something psyching me out.
Colorado dreaming
Posts: 133
Joined: 8/3/2007
14ers: 11 
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Do people get used to exposure or is it determined at birth?

Post by Colorado dreaming »

Directing this question to a group of climbers does skew the responses away from the "birth" side of the spectrum. I tend to think that climbers, on average, are born with a much higher tolerance for exposure than the general population. Those with very high levels of fear of exposure will likely never be climbers. However, I still think it is "both" for most people, you are born somewhere on the spectrum but, for most, you can change your position on the spectrum (if you are on the extremes, then I doubt additional exposure experience will change anything).

I have a pretty high level of fear of heights/exposure and have my entire life. From as early as I can remember, I couldn't even be near a window on a building on any story above the third floor - if I got even 5 feet from a window, the floor would start moving underneath me and I get wobbly, ready to fall over (vertigo). I have been working on that fear/anxiety for a long time (I can now get near a window, though if it is too high, say 15+ stories, I still can't get too close to the window). Despite this fear, I still loved the mountains and started working on the 14ers. I started with the easy Class 1s, but even then it was hard to overcome. On Bierstadt, even being within 30-40 feet of the edge, I would start to freeze up and feel the ground and everything around me start to move - I felt like I was going to fall right over the edge, even though it was dozens of feet from me. I went very slow and concentrated on other things and tried not to look in that direction, eventually reaching the summit.

One summer, I did 5 14ers, and each one gradually became a bit easier. After ten or eleven 14ers (only Class 1s and 2s), I felt like I was making progress on my fear of exposure so I tried Longs. It was a harrowing experience due to the exposure. I stopped numerous times on the narrows, freaking out whenever anyone was within 5 feet of me and pass me (which, on a busy summer day, was quite often). I did summit but when I returned through the keyhole, I felt such relief that I was back on solid ground! I was pretty proud that I made it but I don't know if I will ever do it again. I have taken a break from 14ers for a number of years after Longs. I hope to get back into it but I also know that I will have to start slowly with little exposure to build up my confidence again.

So, I believe that most people are born somewhere in the middle of the spectrum and can improve if they work on it or fall back (pun intended) if they have a bad experience.
User avatar
greenonion
Posts: 1892
Joined: 10/3/2012
14ers: 50  1 
13ers: 2
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Do people get used to exposure or is it determined at birth?

Post by greenonion »

Colorado dreaming wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:49 pm Directing this question to a group of climbers does skew the responses away from the "birth" side of the spectrum. I tend to think that climbers, on average, are born with a much higher tolerance for exposure than the general population. Those with very high levels of fear of exposure will likely never be climbers. However, I still think it is "both" for most people, you are born somewhere on the spectrum but, for most, you can change your position on the spectrum (if you are on the extremes, then I doubt additional exposure experience will change anything).

I have a pretty high level of fear of heights/exposure and have my entire life. From as early as I can remember, I couldn't even be near a window on a building on any story above the third floor - if I got even 5 feet from a window, the floor would start moving underneath me and I get wobbly, ready to fall over (vertigo). I have been working on that fear/anxiety for a long time (I can now get near a window, though if it is too high, say 15+ stories, I still can't get too close to the window). Despite this fear, I still loved the mountains and started working on the 14ers. I started with the easy Class 1s, but even then it was hard to overcome. On Bierstadt, even being within 30-40 feet of the edge, I would start to freeze up and feel the ground and everything around me start to move - I felt like I was going to fall right over the edge, even though it was dozens of feet from me. I went very slow and concentrated on other things and tried not to look in that direction, eventually reaching the summit.

One summer, I did 5 14ers, and each one gradually became a bit easier. After ten or eleven 14ers (only Class 1s and 2s), I felt like I was making progress on my fear of exposure so I tried Longs. It was a harrowing experience due to the exposure. I stopped numerous times on the narrows, freaking out whenever anyone was within 5 feet of me and pass me (which, on a busy summer day, was quite often). I did summit but when I returned through the keyhole, I felt such relief that I was back on solid ground! I was pretty proud that I made it but I don't know if I will ever do it again. I have taken a break from 14ers for a number of years after Longs. I hope to get back into it but I also know that I will have to start slowly with little exposure to build up my confidence again.

So, I believe that most people are born somewhere in the middle of the spectrum and can improve if they work on it or fall back (pun intended) if they have a bad experience.
Thanks so much for your experience and perspective. Especially enjoyed your first paragraph, and the rest as well. Very well and honestly put.
User avatar
RadioJay
Posts: 66
Joined: 10/3/2011
14ers: 58  1 
13ers: 15
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Do people get used to exposure or is it determined at birth?

Post by RadioJay »

In my experience, you definitely get used to it but you can regress if you aren’t doing it often enough. I remember the first time I did the narrows on Longs I thought it was sketchy but the last time, I hardly noticed it and didn’t bother to steady myself, just kept walking. Bad trail conditions can really up the pucker factor because the chance of slipping is foremost on your mind. Objectively the exposure is the same but subjectively, it is a thousand times worse because the risk of falling just grew by orders of magnitude. Some people get vertigo and that means you simply cannot proceed, period.
ltlFish99
Posts: 619
Joined: 5/21/2019
14ers: 49  3  2 
13ers: 51
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Do people get used to exposure or is it determined at birth?

Post by ltlFish99 »

when i was still in my teens, several of us friends decided to go up one of the supposed easier flatirons in tennis shoes and no rope.
40 to 50 feet up, i was certainly the most frightened, but not the only one. it was unanimous, we went down.
i did not enjoy that experience, other than getting back down.
at 27, i joined the cmc, 2m1st 14er torreys, and 2nd 14er was Capitol.
i enjoyed Capitol, but probably a lot of this enjoyment was because the mountains were such a new abd wonderful experience, thst it sll seemed like a grand adventure.

i also felt good being in a froup of people, with a very experienced trip leader. it was the leaders 500th 14er summit.
i now believe that the number 1 reason that it was so much fun, was that i was much younger. i was 27 on Capitol, and life was good.
i summited a fair number of peaks since then and enjoyed them all.
i recently, in the last couple of years have started to be more bothered by exposure.
By hothered i mean beyond the point of knowing that i should be much more careful, and to the point of it diluting my enjoyment.

being aware, and careful is for me just good common sense.
but when i start to get adrenalized a little too much, it can lessen the enjoyment somewhat. a couple of times i was actually uncomfortable, and had to stop, rest, eat, etc.
i personally believe that getting older gets the credit/blame, or whatever you want to call it.
i am almost 63, and started noticing this at 61. i still Very much enjoy my continuing pursuit of the 14ers, but i must admit that there are several that i am now considering seeking others to join me as the company of others is enjoyable in many ways, and can slso be comforting on some of the more difficult peaks.
User avatar
aholle88
Posts: 368
Joined: 3/24/2015
14ers: 57  24  26 
13ers: 300 29 3
Trip Reports (1)
 

Re: Do people get used to exposure or is it determined at birth?

Post by aholle88 »

twhalm wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:49 am That being said, it is not a static thing.
I believe this statement to be true regardless of where one is on the spectrum of exposure tolerance. I personally have never really had an issue with exposure, but even so, the more I’m out the less I notice any exposure even when there’s a lot of it. If I’m not getting out as much, or coming off winter/spring, I’ll notice it’s there a little more. Not necessarily a fear thing but more just like hey there’s a couple thousand feet of air I’m hanging my butt over right now, neat.
User avatar
Exiled Michigander
Posts: 278
Joined: 7/29/2010
14ers: 58  7 
Trip Reports (20)
 

Re: Do people get used to exposure or is it determined at birth?

Post by Exiled Michigander »

Before I started roped climbing, I could climb short sections of exposed easy class 5 (5.4/5.5) and didn't think anything of it. Now an exposed Class 3 without a rope, a harness, and a belayer freaks me out a bit!

Having kids also doesn't help. Being responsible for a little person really alters your relationship to risk!
Post Reply