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Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:16 am
by Dave B
CaptCO wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:49 am
I don’t know about you, but I like to be home in time for dinner. I have no problem keeping a hard pace. I’m sure a lot of others can say the same, to each their own. You can’t improve at turtle speed.
Welcome to the summit of Mt Stupid.

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Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:22 am
by CaptCO
Dave B wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:16 am
CaptCO wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:49 am
I don’t know about you, but I like to be home in time for dinner. I have no problem keeping a hard pace. I’m sure a lot of others can say the same, to each their own. You can’t improve at turtle speed.
Welcome to the summit of Mt Stupid.

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You’ve been waiting for a jab ol’ Davey! Don’t you have a job or something to do, or you still waiting on that stimulus?

Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:34 am
by Dave B
CaptCO wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:22 am
You’ve been waiting for a jab ol’ Davey! Don’t you have a job or something to do, or you still waiting on that stimulus?
Waiting? No, I've actually shown an uncharacteristic amount of restraint.

Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:36 am
by CaptCO
Dave B wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:34 am
CaptCO wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:22 am
You’ve been waiting for a jab ol’ Davey! Don’t you have a job or something to do, or you still waiting on that stimulus?
Waiting? No, I've actually shown an uncharacteristic amount of restraint.
Love you too, have a good New Years

Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:42 am
by TomPierce
Wildernessjane wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:43 am
angry wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:48 pm
12ersRule wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:23 am
I'm not big on the high elevation stuff in winter, but aren't you supposed to slow down to minimize the sweating so you don't freeze?

Thanks.
I’m in the slow and steady camp. I have a good layering system and don’t have to take a lot of breaks either. I disagree that you have to “move fast” in winter. I get out consistently in less than ideal conditions and obviously don’t believe my speed is a safety concern. I wouldn’t want to hike with anyone that feels the need to race up a mountain in any season. I like to enjoy my time outdoors and not be rushed by someone else.
Totally agreed. I’ve been in plenty of situations where I was with someone who charged right out of the gates but then couldn’t sustain that pace over the long haul and I was still going strong at the end of the day. My strategy is to start out at a slow and steady pace to warm/wake up but then I gradually pick up speed and rarely stop for more than 30 seconds at a time. But one person’s “slow and steady” might be another’s fast pace so this is all extremely relative. This discussion highlights the importance of being able to be self-sufficient if you are going to randomly meet up with someone in winter (or anytime for that matter). What if a “hard charger” randomly met up with a “long-hauler” on a first peak in winter?
+2. Let's dispel with the old "speed is safety in the mountains" maxim. I think (?) it was actually first coined by the Chamonix crowd (e.g. Gaston Rebuffat, etc.) back in the 1950's, the Annapurna era, and examples of the percieved need were offered up in a truly alpine, i.e. glaciated setting: Some routes would pass below hanging glacial seracs that could come crashing down with the warmth of day. Fwiw, years ago I did such a route where we were nervously looking above at the seracs hanging over us, tons of ice, like the Sword of Damocles, we almost jogged that section. Speed was safety, indeed. But some hiker/climbers ("some" = younger men in the teens/20's with triple digit VO2 max scores :lol: ) have taken this as an absolute rule. I know I won't enjoy partners who post ascent times in reports, etc. Where's the fire? They must have a hot date to get back to...I'm with Rose & Jane, steady, not meandering, but not 20-something manically fast. If some want to set a fast pace, great, just not my cup of tea, at least at this point in my climbing "career." I have a good headlamp and actually enjoy a winter night if that's what the pace dictates; operating at night in the winter is no big deal if you plan accordingly. Just me.

-Tom

Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:36 am
by mtn_hound
Dave B wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:34 am
CaptCO wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:22 am
You’ve been waiting for a jab ol’ Davey! Don’t you have a job or something to do, or you still waiting on that stimulus?
Waiting? No, I've actually shown an uncharacteristic amount of restraint.
Dave's just part of the silent majority. Most people who think somebody online is a moron never say a peep about it.

Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:54 am
by Chicago Transplant
I have to go a certain pace to generate heat, to me it is not fast, its just my normal hiking pace. If I go too slow I am much colder than if I just go my normal pace, so there is a safety factor in going your normal pace. You know what you need to do to stay warm, beat sunset, beat a storm. You know how quick to cross under those seracs or more appropriate to Colorado - how long to climb that couloir to get it before the rockfall and wet slide hazard increases with the heat of the day.

I am not a hard charger, I just go steady, but my steady is probably fast for most people. I like to be out all day enjoying nature at my steady pace, just because someone is quicker than you, it doesn't mean they are in a rush! I just might go farther in my 10 hours than someone else does. When I hike with other people I pretty much always defer to them on start times because their pace dictates all of those safety factors above. If you have a new partner, you really don't know who is the one who will be setting the pace or the start time because you don't know who is the slower/quicker of the group, so there is a benefit to chatting with someone about expectations on how long something is going to take and comparing times on common hikes in common conditions to reach a common understanding.

If you are going to hike in winter with a new partner and you have both separately done Quandary in winter, ask each other how long it took so you can start to set common expectations. Especially if you solo a lot of stuff and have no real comparison to how your pace fits in with others. I can hike with anyone, but if I am going to be in for a 12 hour day when if I were solo it would be 8, I need to know that ahead of time so I can adjust my mentality and what I carry as far as extra layers, water and food for being out 4 more hours than I expect. If you are planning on an 8 hour "fast" pace and get a 12 hour "slow" pace instead, it really can put you at risk of being under-prepared even though the mileage and vertical gain stats remain the same, so just communicate with your partners. It not a competition, someone being faster or slower doesn't mean anything in the big picture, but it is helpful to know what someone's normal hike is before you go on an outing together so those expectations are clear.

Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:01 am
by Tornadoman
Chicago Transplant wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:54 am
I have to go a certain pace to generate heat, to me it is not fast, its just my normal hiking pace. If I go too slow I am much colder than if I just go my normal pace, so there is a safety factor in going your normal pace. You know what you need to do to stay warm, beat sunset, beat a storm. You know how quick to cross under those seracs or more appropriate to Colorado - how long to climb that couloir to get it before the rockfall and wet slide hazard increases with the heat of the day.

I am not a hard charger, I just go steady, but my steady is probably fast for most people. I like to be out all day enjoying nature at my steady pace, just because someone is quicker than you, it doesn't mean they are in a rush! I just might go farther in my 10 hours than someone else does. When I hike with other people I pretty much always defer to them on start times because their pace dictates all of those safety factors above. If you have a new partner, you really don't know who is the one who will be setting the pace or the start time because you don't know who is the slower/quicker of the group, so there is a benefit to chatting with someone about expectations on how long something is going to take and comparing times on common hikes in common conditions to reach a common understanding.

If you are going to hike in winter with a new partner and you have both separately done Quandary in winter, ask each other how long it took so you can start to set common expectations. Especially if you solo a lot of stuff and have no real comparison to how your pace fits in with others. I can hike with anyone, but if I am going to be in for a 12 hour day when if I were solo it would be 8, I need to know that ahead of time so I can adjust my mentality and what I carry as far as extra layers, water and food for being out 4 more hours than I expect. If you are planning on an 8 hour "fast" pace and get a 12 hour "slow" pace instead, it really can put you at risk of being under-prepared even though the mileage and vertical gain stats remain the same, so just communicate with your partners. It not a competition, someone being faster or slower doesn't mean anything in the big picture, but it is helpful to know what someone's normal hike is before you go on an outing together so those expectations are clear.
This is a very strong post! =D>

Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:01 pm
by 12ersRule
Tornadoman wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:01 am
This is a very strong post! =D>
Yup, strong in the post, just like Karl "The Mailman" Malone.
MailmanDelivers.PNG
MailmanDelivers.PNG (222.24 KiB) Viewed 707 times

Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:57 pm
by d_baker
mtn_hound wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:36 am
Dave B wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:34 am
CaptCO wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:22 am
You’ve been waiting for a jab ol’ Davey! Don’t you have a job or something to do, or you still waiting on that stimulus?
Waiting? No, I've actually shown an uncharacteristic amount of restraint.
Dave's just part of the silent majority. Most people who think somebody online is a moron never say a peep about it.
Like SNL had ~4 years of presidential fodder to work with, 14ers forum will have X amount of years to garner out of the Capt.
Time will tell!
Sadly his cry rage quit didn't take. Nor did adolescent behavior go away.

Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:47 pm
by climbingcue
Chicago Transplant wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:54 am
I have to go a certain pace to generate heat, to me it is not fast, its just my normal hiking pace. If I go too slow I am much colder than if I just go my normal pace, so there is a safety factor in going your normal pace. You know what you need to do to stay warm, beat sunset, beat a storm. You know how quick to cross under those seracs or more appropriate to Colorado - how long to climb that couloir to get it before the rockfall and wet slide hazard increases with the heat of the day.

I am not a hard charger, I just go steady, but my steady is probably fast for most people. I like to be out all day enjoying nature at my steady pace, just because someone is quicker than you, it doesn't mean they are in a rush! I just might go farther in my 10 hours than someone else does. When I hike with other people I pretty much always defer to them on start times because their pace dictates all of those safety factors above. If you have a new partner, you really don't know who is the one who will be setting the pace or the start time because you don't know who is the slower/quicker of the group, so there is a benefit to chatting with someone about expectations on how long something is going to take and comparing times on common hikes in common conditions to reach a common understanding.

If you are going to hike in winter with a new partner and you have both separately done Quandary in winter, ask each other how long it took so you can start to set common expectations. Especially if you solo a lot of stuff and have no real comparison to how your pace fits in with others. I can hike with anyone, but if I am going to be in for a 12 hour day when if I were solo it would be 8, I need to know that ahead of time so I can adjust my mentality and what I carry as far as extra layers, water and food for being out 4 more hours than I expect. If you are planning on an 8 hour "fast" pace and get a 12 hour "slow" pace instead, it really can put you at risk of being under-prepared even though the mileage and vertical gain stats remain the same, so just communicate with your partners. It not a competition, someone being faster or slower doesn't mean anything in the big picture, but it is helpful to know what someone's normal hike is before you go on an outing together so those expectations are clear.
Totally agree, and you have said it much better than I did in my post, I set a very steady pace the entire day. It does not change than much going up or down.

Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:20 pm
by CaptCO
d_baker wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:57 pm
mtn_hound wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:36 am
Dave B wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:34 am


Waiting? No, I've actually shown an uncharacteristic amount of restraint.
Dave's just part of the silent majority. Most people who think somebody online is a moron never say a peep about it.
Like SNL had ~4 years of presidential fodder to work with, 14ers forum will have X amount of years to garner out of the Capt.
Time will tell!
Sadly his cry rage quit didn't take. Nor did adolescent behavior go away.
Thanks Darin! I have no problem being a human punching bag for those who are less fortunate. I hope you had a great Christmas!