DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Colorado peak questions, condition requests and other info.
Forum rules
Please do not use this forum to advertise, sell photos or other products or promote a commercial website. For more details, please see the Terms of Use you agreed to when joining the forum.
Post Reply
peter303
Posts: 3328
Joined: 6/17/2009
14ers: 34
13ers: 12
Trip Reports (3)

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by peter303 »

XterraRob wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 10:37 am I would charge $150 to access the summit of Bross & $200 for South Bross, truly two unique summit experiences you will get nowhere else.
Pikes Peak summit on a summer holiday weekend might get close. And you can spend $20 on a road pass or $58 on the cogway.
User avatar
madbuck
Posts: 904
Joined: 6/16/2009
14ers: List not added
Trip Reports (6)
Contact:

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by madbuck »

zinj wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 7:34 am The popularity and high use of Bross warrants consideration of a specific bill in the statehouse to address THIS ONE INSTANCE of liability and land rights. The Bross Bill, if a cute name helps sell it.
Well, here's the problem the Hardrock 100 race faced after 20 years of crossing a section of private land :
Chapman stating he plans on posting armed guards in the basin over the summer in order to keep hikers, bikers and runners from passing over Gold Hill Development’s mining claims.
Leadville 100 mt bike race crosses private land as well, and it's good that it continues but is never a certainty. (People can't otherwise ride the course any other day).
Earlier in the thread, the very popular Mt. Falcon trails were mentioned.
List-of-Johners are keenly aware of plenty of private and "interesting" land that owners wouldn't really care about for access, except for that liability.

This is a "thing" in Colorado, with land locked up by cheap mineral rights, but more and more people wanting to recreate on the land. We have owners who would be willing to share but there's only a disincentive (liability) for them to do so.

The potential (liability) cost is never even close to potentially realized, but we have people acting as if they are. It's a mismatch of each of the individual risk not adding up to a whole, which could easily be subsidized or protected, and an economic benefit (recreation) locked up historical policies.

Hence, money (insurance) or legislation (a minor but clarifying update to legislation) to address the mismatch
User avatar
Scott P
Posts: 8514
Joined: 5/4/2005
14ers: 51 16
13ers: 43 13
Trip Reports (16)
Contact:

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by Scott P »

madbuck wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 12:13 pm
Well, here's the problem the Hardrock 100 race faced after 20 years of crossing a section of private land :


Chapman stating he plans on posting armed guards in the basin over the summer in order to keep hikers, bikers and runners from passing over Gold Hill Development’s mining claims.
Part of the article is interesting and ironic:

The company bought the claims in the spring of 2010 and is now locked up with Telluride Ski & Golf in court over GHDC’s claim it has the right to use the Telluride Trail and the lofty Gold Hill Road to access its property.


In other words Chapman is telling the private land owners in Telluride that he can use their land to access his property without their permission, but that no one can use his land to access their property (i.e. public).

The mining claim owner is insisting that he gets to drive his trucks on the ski runs and other private lands (that are not his) and wants to open his own ski chalet on the mining claims.

https://www.telluridenews.com/news/arti ... 2c781.html

I don't see any recent updates that are free to view though.
I'm slow and fat. Unfortunately, those are my good qualities.
User avatar
Bombay2Boulder
Posts: 514
Joined: 1/19/2015
14ers: 56 3
13ers: 203
Trip Reports (4)

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by Bombay2Boulder »

Funny to see the Chapman saga being mentioned here. At one point he wanted to build a private home in the basin. He has since then sold his claim. Pissed of a lot of locals then, locals are still salty about the drama he caused.
https://backcountrymagazine.com/stories ... ear-creek/
https://www.telluridemountainclub.org/bear-creek-freed/
User avatar
Scott P
Posts: 8514
Joined: 5/4/2005
14ers: 51 16
13ers: 43 13
Trip Reports (16)
Contact:

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by Scott P »

Bombay2Boulder wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 11:53 pm He has since then sold his claim.
Interesting. As mentioned, the most recent information is pay only so thanks for the updates.

So now it's the same company (GHDC) but with a different person (or people) that has (have) the issues?

The lawsuit is still active according to the original link, so the irony is still there. They are suing to drive across across ski resort property/ski runs that are not theirs, yet want to post armed guards making sure no one crosses into their land to access other lands (assuming the original article posted is still up to date).
I'm slow and fat. Unfortunately, those are my good qualities.
User avatar
Bombay2Boulder
Posts: 514
Joined: 1/19/2015
14ers: 56 3
13ers: 203
Trip Reports (4)

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by Bombay2Boulder »

Scott P wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 5:37 am
Bombay2Boulder wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 11:53 pm He has since then sold his claim.
Interesting. As mentioned, the most recent information is pay only so thanks for the updates.

So now it's the same company (GHDC) but with a different person (or people) that has (have) the issues?

The lawsuit is still active according to the original link, so the irony is still there. They are suing to drive across across ski resort property/ski runs that are not theirs, yet want to post armed guards making sure no one crosses into their land to access other lands (assuming the original article posted is still up to date).
That lawsuit was ruled against Chapman, the TMC link I posted briefly mentions it. But here's another article-http://montrosemirror.com/uncategorized ... f-appeals/
I am not aware who the current owners are but there have been no "issues" about this recently so I am sure they are not gonna stir the pot here.
User avatar
yardman
Posts: 31
Joined: 10/30/2010
14ers: 46 2 1
13ers: 14

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by yardman »

Scott P wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:40 pm I also wonder why it seems to be just these three which seem to have the problem? Except for 100 yards or so the entire route up Sherman is private as is most of the mountian. It doesn't seem that anyone cares though? Yet at least.

The summit of Lindsey is also private. So is the Angel of Shavano.
Private peaks include: Culebra (entirety), Bross (multiple fractional owners), Democrat/Lincoln (Reiber property), Lindsey (Trinchera Blanca Ranch), Shavano (summit block owned by CFI, other private parties own parcels on the saddle), Sherman (Leadville Corp, a defunct mining company pushed by rival creditors into bankruptcy court). Aside from Culebra, CFI is working to obtain public access to all of these peaks through various means. This will take time and money for those that might be bought from willing sellers and ultimately sold to the Forest Service. There is also the risk that we don't succeed. Lindsey will require some form of an access agreement, which we are working to establish between the Ranch and Colorado Parks and Wildlife. There may be the need to further clarify and enhance landowner protections in the Colorado Recreational Use Statute to address real and perceived liability issues in the Nelson case (AFA bike path). Ultimately obtaining permanent public access will not happen quickly, but there are some promising opportunities being pursued by CFI and partners (The Conservation Fund and Mosquito Range Heritage Initiative).

For those commenting on the Nelson legal case, what is most perplexing to me about landowner liability concerns expressed is the failure to post even the most basic warning and hazard signs on the property, which CFI has offered to assist with on multiple occasions. We posted signs on Shavano that our attorneys feel is sufficient to provide needed legal warning. Doing this on DeCaLiBron is the most basic first step in protecting landowners from liability. Sigh...
User avatar
Scott P
Posts: 8514
Joined: 5/4/2005
14ers: 51 16
13ers: 43 13
Trip Reports (16)
Contact:

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by Scott P »

yardman wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:21 pmPrivate peaks include: Culebra (entirety), Bross (multiple fractional owners), Democrat/Lincoln (Reiber property), Lindsey (Trinchera Blanca Ranch), Shavano (summit block owned by CFI, other private parties own parcels on the saddle), Sherman (Leadville Corp, a defunct mining company pushed by rival creditors into bankruptcy court)....
Yardman, thanks for posting all of the updates and info. Very useful, and we should all be greatful for those working on preserving access.
I'm slow and fat. Unfortunately, those are my good qualities.
User avatar
cougar
Posts: 926
Joined: 8/9/2007
14ers: 48 2
13ers: 98 2
Trip Reports (10)
Contact:

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by cougar »

zinj wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 7:34 am The popularity and high use of Bross warrants consideration of a specific bill in the statehouse to address THIS ONE INSTANCE of liability and land rights. The Bross Bill, if a cute name helps sell it.

Or...do all that other stuff.
Bill Brossky!!
http://www.listsofjohn.com/m/cougar

"If we don't change direction, we'll end up where we're going."
"Bushwhacking is like a box of chocolates - you never know what you're gonna get."
"Don't give up on your dreams, stay asleep"
User avatar
Scott P
Posts: 8514
Joined: 5/4/2005
14ers: 51 16
13ers: 43 13
Trip Reports (16)
Contact:

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by Scott P »

For anyone curious, here is the closest you can get to each peak without touching private land. You really have to gap map reading or GPS skills though. The very summits are all on private and.

Lincoln = 146 vertical feet, but the horizontal distance is greater on Lincoln than on the other peaks.

Cameron = 18 vertical feet

Bross = 32 vertical feet

Democrat = 88 vertical feet

There might come a time when the only access is to reach the highest public land on each peak and still count a "summit". Hopefully it doesn't come to that, but it might be useful to point out that the bulk of these mountains are public land; it's most the areas right around the summits that are private.
I'm slow and fat. Unfortunately, those are my good qualities.
Svein
Posts: 2
Joined: 6/20/2021
14ers: List not added

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by Svein »

Any update on the closure status? I saw they were supposed to be closed for the month of May. Did that extend into June?
Thanks.
-wren-
Posts: 41
Joined: 3/24/2021
14ers: 15
13ers: 37
Trip Reports (1)

Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?

Post by -wren- »

Svein wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:56 pm Any update on the closure status? I saw they were supposed to be closed for the month of May. Did that extend into June?
Thanks.
Edited to be more conducive to other people’s own decision making.

Access is open, last stretches to the peaks are closed. Is it possible to climb them? Yes. Should you? Probably not.

I will say that the unwillingness to let TFI do trail maintenance on Bross and general lack of communication skills from landowners makes me think that best case scenario these peaks turn into Culebra v2, but maybe I’m a pessimist.
Last edited by -wren- on Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“To paraphrase Hemingway - bullfighting, motor sports, and mountain climbing. Everything else is a game. I don’t know if he actually said that, but it’s pretty worthy.” -Conrad Anker

https://listsofjohn.com/m/wren?
Post Reply