New CAIC Tool

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-wren-
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Re: New CAIC Tool

Post by -wren- »

curt86iroc wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:18 pm
why would a planning tool like this be helpful if you wanted to avoid avi terrain altogether? ski slopes under 30deg (on them or under them). do this and you will never be in avalanche terrain. no tool needed...
Watch out guys, someone got their AIARE Level 1!!
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Re: New CAIC Tool

Post by curt86iroc »

think about it. im not wrong.
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Re: New CAIC Tool

Post by -wren- »

curt86iroc wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:13 pm think about it. im not wrong.
You are. A slope does not have to be 30+ degrees to slide. Plenty of other factors involved. If you bumble around the backcountry only taking slope angle into account, you have some work to do on avalanche awareness.
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Re: New CAIC Tool

Post by TomPierce »

I finally looked at the tool and played with it a bit. Maybe not enough, maybe I'm missing something, but is there a map that shows all known slides in Colorado? I fully realize that it'd be a big data input job, but also once done it'd be auto-updated with each new slide entry. I think it'd be useful for someone to know which slopes have slid in the past, even if many years ago. I can think of a couple on 14ers that aren't well known but which also killed climbers. Or did I miss that feature?

-Tom
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Re: New CAIC Tool

Post by Boggy B »

curt86iroc wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:18 pm why would a planning tool like this be helpful if you wanted to avoid avi terrain altogether?
When getting the right answer to such important questions as "How close is 'under'?" and "Is it safe to walk on/under a 40-foot slope?" requires even a basic grasp of trigonometry.
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Re: New CAIC Tool

Post by curt86iroc »

-wren- wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:18 pm
curt86iroc wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:13 pm think about it. im not wrong.
You are. A slope does not have to be 30+ degrees to slide. Plenty of other factors involved. If you bumble around the backcountry only taking slope angle into account, you have some work to do on avalanche awareness.
show me an example of an avi in CO that released on a slope under 30deg. statistically speaking, they are so rare you can consider the likelihood of occurrence near 0. there are several published papers on this topic that you can google and go as far down the rabbit hole as you want.

if you are not in terrain that can produce an avalanche, the likelihood of triggering one is literally 0.
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Re: New CAIC Tool

Post by -wren- »

curt86iroc wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:37 pm
-wren- wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:18 pm
curt86iroc wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:13 pm think about it. im not wrong.
You are. A slope does not have to be 30+ degrees to slide. Plenty of other factors involved. If you bumble around the backcountry only taking slope angle into account, you have some work to do on avalanche awareness.
show me an example of an avi in CO that released on a slope under 30deg. statistically speaking, they are so rare you can consider the likelihood of occurrence near 0. there are several published papers on this topic that you can google and go as far down the rabbit hole as you want.

if you are not in terrain that can produce an avalanche, the likelihood of triggering one is literally 0.
How about you go a little further back in the forums and read about the very recent death on the slopes headed up North Star Mtn just west of Hoosier Pass?
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Re: New CAIC Tool

Post by curt86iroc »

did you read the full CAIC report? that was a very tragic accident, but the party was clearly traveling in avi terrain (they were under a slope that averaged well over 30deg).

https://avalanche.state.co.us/caic/acc/ ... iew=public

quoted:

This avalanche occurred on a steep, wind-loaded, east-facing slope near treeline. It was a hard-slab avalanche, triggered by a snowshoer, medium-sized relative to the path and produced enough destructive force to bury, injure, or kill a person (HS-AIu-R3D2-O). The avalanche ran 100 vertical feet and was 370 feet wide. The crown face of the avalanche was 3 to 10 feet high.The avalanche broke near the ground on faceted crystals 1 to 2 mm in size. The avalanche debris averaged 6 feet deep and partially buried a Forest Service road, open to motorized travel in the summer. The road was mostly drifted in by recent snow and wind. The runout angle of the avalanche was 26 degrees. The average steepness of the slope in the starting zone was 35 degrees, though some portions of the slope were as steep as 38 degrees.
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Re: New CAIC Tool

Post by -wren- »

curt86iroc wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:50 pm did you read the full CAIC report? that was a very tragic accident, but the party was clearly traveling in avi terrain (they were under a slope that averaged well over 30deg).

https://avalanche.state.co.us/caic/acc/ ... iew=public

quoted:

This avalanche occurred on a steep, wind-loaded, east-facing slope near treeline. It was a hard-slab avalanche, triggered by a snowshoer, medium-sized relative to the path and produced enough destructive force to bury, injure, or kill a person (HS-AIu-R3D2-O). The avalanche ran 100 vertical feet and was 370 feet wide. The crown face of the avalanche was 3 to 10 feet high.The avalanche broke near the ground on faceted crystals 1 to 2 mm in size. The avalanche debris averaged 6 feet deep and partially buried a Forest Service road, open to motorized travel in the summer. The road was mostly drifted in by recent snow and wind. The runout angle of the avalanche was 26 degrees. The average steepness of the slope in the starting zone was 35 degrees, though some portions of the slope were as steep as 38 degrees.
I stand corrected, but the fact remains that avy terrain isn’t restricted to solely on or under 30 degree slopes, as well as what BoggyB said.
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Re: New CAIC Tool

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"There are no hard 14ers, but some are easier than others." - Scott P
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