Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

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MaryinColorado
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by MaryinColorado »

Hi! I feel like you're going to have a LOT more research to do on this. First, you'd need to consider what 14er is good for a large group of what I assume are probably novices. I'd argue the list is very small. Second, where is that group size allowable? or where special permit is needed? As others have mentioned, the Forest Service has strict limits on group size. Especially for environments like 14ers, such a large group carries with it a lot of consideration for what the environment can handle. (14er environments are generally very fragile. For example, considering that Culebra doesn't have a trail, I suspect that even for environmental reasons, they wouldn't want to grant access to such a large group to be on the fragile tundra all at once.)

Not trying to burst your bubble, just trying to relay a sense of reality about this. There's a LOT to consider, and that's not even to mention the logistics of getting that many people to a 14er trailhead and what that trailhead area can even accommodate.
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by Gene913 »

Anyone with a thimbleful of knowledge about climbing would know you cannot legitimately/seriously expect to have 150 people could do a group climb of any Colorado 14er.
It feels like we are being trolled.
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by BillMiddlebrook »

Gene913 wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:00 pm It feels like we are being trolled.
Yup
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by tortilla »

Little Bear is a great peak for your group size
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by climbingcue »

Go to NYC and walk around Central Park. No need to bring 150 people to any mountain in Colorado.
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by Flatlanderweekender »

Not trolling - trying to figure out how to do this as safely and responsibly as possible and report back with a rough plan outline. The company is made up of VERY fit people and has done groups of 60+ for Bierstadt, Pikes, Grand Canyon, and Grays/Torreys. We typically had around an 80-90% summit rate, often with first-timers from flat states. This just includes more of the company than before. What I'm roughly thinking:

1. Pike's Peak on a weekday - busses and vans drop people off at trailhead
2. Break into staggered groups of 15-30 (whatever is allowable)
3. Use radio communication between leaders to make sure anyone struggling is accounted for and taken care of
4. Have a few people with vehicles who can pick people up from the road in the event of an emergency or bailout
5. Shuttle people back down from the summit via van/bus

I know it sounds a bit crazy, but trying to make sure this ends up being something like the above instead of 150 people showing up at the trailhead for Long's unprepared (a much, much worse idea).
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by Eli Boardman »

Flatlanderweekender wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:42 amhas done groups of 60+ for Bierstadt
I'd like to know which company you work for so I can report you to the Forest Service, because that's illegal. (Bierstadt is in the Mount Evans Wilderness.)

https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/arp/rec ... 0&actid=50
Group size limited to 15 people and/or 10 pack/stock animals per party.
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by Gene913 »

With apologies to Lorrie Morgan, "what part of 'no' don't you understand?"
A 150 person group climb of any Colorado 14er does not "sound a bit crazy" - it is completely insane, misguided, illegal, and unsafe.
By continuing this lunacy, you are doing irreparable harm to the way flatlanders who come to Colorado to climb peaks are perceived. Just stop.
"If you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, and you say to this mountain, 'move from here to there,' it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you." Matthew 17:21
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by JChitwood »

tortilla wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:12 am Little Bear is a great peak for your group size
I haven’t laughed this hard at a post in years.

Actually Culebra might be the only mountain where you could pull this off. Private property isn’t subject to the public land restrictions and the Culebra owner is up for monetizing the mountain. Offer up a day through the week, throw a big number at them, hire a fleet of small busses and a bunch of porta-potties and it could be done. If the day is successful you’re in line for a big promotion. If people have to get rescued or die you could have charges filed. Either way you’re in the news!
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by HikesInGeologicTime »

Flatlanderweekender wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:42 am Not trolling - trying to figure out how to do this as safely and responsibly as possible...
Okay, well, as others have already pointed out by now, you can’t do this “safely and responsibly.” It’s too many people trampling the trail all at once, some (many?) of whom haven’t been up an alpine peak before, and you(r company) want(s) to take them up Pikes?? 12.5 mi. one way, 7000’ elevation gain Pikes?!? That’s...not a good idea, to put it delicately.

But okay, I’m guessing the corporate bigwig who is now breathing down your neck about this got promoted due to nepotism/a remarkable ability to grovel at the feet of the even bigger wigs and isn’t going to take things like “employee safety” and “environmental impact concerns” - not to mention all the other people pissed off that they now can’t access Pikes or the Manitou Incline that day because the lot has been overtaken by tour buses when there weren’t any events scheduled - too seriously when there’s a big important clap on the shoulder coming if he (I’m just gonna assume gender here) can take the credit for organizing a successful trauma-bonding exercise, so maybe the tactic to pull with him is this: it is a headache to try getting one single carload of people up to a popular fourteener trailhead between July 4th and the end of Labor Day Weekend. Arranging tour buses + multiple bailout vehicles to accommodate 150 people...hahahahahaaaaaa, not happening at this stage of the game.

The company would have to put way more money into the string-pulling that would be necessary to pull this off than they could potentially hope to earn back, plus the added $$$$$ they’d have to spend on PR if those pesky safety, environmental, and local access issues made the news? Hopefully that convinces the higher-ups to go a literal as well as figurative different route.
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by JaredJohnson »

I suggest contacting a guide service or CMC for suggestions on activities that they could offer, in or near alpine environments that would be suitable for your group. I am guessing you would want to split up the larger group into multiple smaller groups, possibly doing different things and doing them on different days. Then you could pay someone else to handle the logistics that already knows how to do so
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by MaryinColorado »

Flatlanderweekender wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:42 am Not trolling - trying to figure out how to do this as safely and responsibly as possible and report back with a rough plan outline. The company is made up of VERY fit people and has done groups of 60+ for Bierstadt, Pikes, Grand Canyon, and Grays/Torreys. We typically had around an 80-90% summit rate, often with first-timers from flat states. This just includes more of the company than before. What I'm roughly thinking:

1. Pike's Peak on a weekday - busses and vans drop people off at trailhead
2. Break into staggered groups of 15-30 (whatever is allowable)
3. Use radio communication between leaders to make sure anyone struggling is accounted for and taken care of
4. Have a few people with vehicles who can pick people up from the road in the event of an emergency or bailout
5. Shuttle people back down from the summit via van/bus

I know it sounds a bit crazy, but trying to make sure this ends up being something like the above instead of 150 people showing up at the trailhead for Long's unprepared (a much, much worse idea).
I don't want to look as though I'm supporting this, because I definitely don't. So let me state that first. I think this is a setup and, frankly, is somewhat negligent and irresponsible, not to mention disrespectful of resources that could be called upon (El Paso County SAR, namely) if things go sideways. I also think this is pretty risky from a business reputational perspective. The surrounding community is not likely to be a fan of this, nor do I think most people would support the notion of a company plopping this many people on a mountain at once. Just my two cents.

Whatever you decide to do, though, you must make sure you do so LEGALLY, first and foremost. Then, I would make sure every single person is briefed about Leave No Trace and that adherence to it is mandatory. No trampling vegetation off trail. Bag and carry human waste, trash waste. And lastly, and I am serious, I would actually reach out to El Paso County SAR about your plans so they have a heads up but can also provide advisement. If you're going to have this many people on a mountain, on a challenging route, have contingency plans in place and make sure resources you *might* need are at least in the know.
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