Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

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marksilas
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by marksilas »

"And lastly, and I am serious, I would actually reach out to El Paso County SAR about your plans so they have a heads up but can also provide advisement. If you're going to have this many people on a mountain, on a challenging route, have contingency plans in place and make sure resources you *might* need are at least in the know."
If they go up from the Crags TH, most of the route, up to and including Devils Playground, is in Teller County. Need to keep Teller County SAR in the loop as well.
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MaryinColorado
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by MaryinColorado »

marksilas wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:01 pm "If they go up from the Crags TH, most of the route, up to and including Devils Playground, is in Teller County. Need to keep Teller County SAR in the loop as well.
Good point! Thanks for adding that!
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headsizeburrito
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by headsizeburrito »

I guess I'll join the pile-on by bringing up this recent case to highlight the importance of following relevant rules when organizing group trips on public lands:

Washington State man pleads guilty to guiding illegal rim-to-rim hike in Grand Canyon National Park
GRAND CANYON, Ariz. —Following an investigation by rangers of the National Park Service, a Washington State man pled guilty to the charge of violation of the group size limitation on a rim-to-rim hike within Grand Canyon National Park.
Grand Canyon National Park, date not specified | Photo courtesy of the National Park Service, St. George News

According to a news release from the National Park Service, Joseph Don Mount, who has been identified as the former chief operations officer for Steck Medical Group in Chehalis, Washington, was ordered to serve two years of supervised probation and is banned from all national parks, national monuments and federal lands within the state of Arizona.

Court documents show that on Oct. 24, 2020, the NPS investigated an allegation that Mount organized a 139-person rim-to-rim hiking group through the inner canyon without a permit. The inner canyon is defined as the area below the Tonto Platform from the South Rim and below Manzanita Resthouse from the North Rim.

Prior to his trip, Mount was made aware that his group required a permit. The case was prosecuted by the US Attorney’s Office for the District of Arizona, the news release said.
https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archi ... onal-park/
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Boggy B
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by Boggy B »

Flatlanderweekender wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:07 pm the company is definitely willing to pay for access that might be a little out of the usual.
I bet CV would sell for the right number. When you're done with it, please donate the ranch to the -state of CO-.
Strike that. Feds?
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by osprey »

On the other hand, laws about group size on National Forest Land are not enforced with huge groups such as the Rainbow Family of Light’s gathering of an expected 10,000 in Routt National Forest this week.
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by cougar »

It would be much better received and more team building oriented if the company had a trail work or similiar event with that many people. Good PR, vs some stunt to hike something on already crowded areas where access is being more limited due to overcrowding and resource damage, and parking is overflowing. 150 is still a huge number. Groups of 20-30 hiking are already too big.
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MaryinColorado
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by MaryinColorado »

osprey wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:59 pm On the other hand, laws about group size on National Forest Land are not enforced with huge groups such as the Rainbow Family of Light’s gathering of an expected 10,000 in Routt National Forest this week.
I wouldn't say the laws aren't enforced, it's more so that the FS can't be everywhere at all times to monitor. Regardless, the law serves a purpose, so whether enforced or not, good stewardship of lands starts with every individual. Should not always require the hand of official enforcement in order to do the right thing.
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by JGiffinPhotog »

Maybe something like Snow Mountain Ranch could be a good alternative that has the infrastructure & resources to handle a large group with team building exercises.
https://ymcarockies.org/
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Urban Snowshoer
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by Urban Snowshoer »

I agree with previous comments pointing out that the Cielo Vista ranch doesn't have a lodge nor will they issue permits for anywhere near that number of people.

I like climbing 14ers as much as anyone else on the site; however, I don't think 14er climbing is the best teambuilding excercise. It's one thing to do it with a small group of friends or co-workers you know well. Doing it with 150 people is a whole different story and I highly doubt you're familiar with the abilities of all the 150 people you plan on bringing.

If somebody gets sick, hurt, dehydrated, or any number of other things that can wrong--with as many people you are proposing the odds are at least one person will have issues--you're going to be in for a really bad time at best and a lawsuit at worst.

From my own experience, you begin to have issues when you're group gets beyond 5-6 people, though it's not an insurmountable problem. Beyond 10-12 people it's an unwieldy mess that's impossible to manage.
Last edited by Urban Snowshoer on Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:09 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Trotter
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by Trotter »

JGiffinPhotog wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:34 pm Maybe something like Snow Mountain Ranch could be a good alternative that has the infrastructure & resources to handle a large group with team building exercises.
https://ymcarockies.org/
+1

Forget the 14er plans, and find a ranch that accommodates groups and team events already.
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by greenonion »

Please share your exact dates and peak so I can be incommunicado and outta state.

Do be safe whatever you do.
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Urban Snowshoer
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Re: Culebra contact information? How do you stay at the lodge? How big of a group?

Post by Urban Snowshoer »

Boggy B wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:57 pm
Flatlanderweekender wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:07 pm the company is definitely willing to pay for access that might be a little out of the usual.
I bet CV would sell for the right number. When you're done with it, please donate the ranch to the -state of CO-.
Strike that. Feds?
Aside from something rather unseemly about the "pay to play" angle, it's worth noting that Cielo Vista allows access to Culebra, whereas Trinchera currently does not for Mount Lindsey.
Last edited by Urban Snowshoer on Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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