I call bull on this whole idea. Architects don't use those fonts.Monster5 wrote:Ha! The Civils are almost as bad as the architects.
Pikes Peak Summit house options
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- wildlobo71
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Re: Pikes Peak Summit house options
Bill W.
Time for the next great losing streak to begin.
#forcedrefocus
Time for the next great losing streak to begin.
#forcedrefocus
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Re: Pikes Peak Summit house options
Theres a wavy roof house on the southeast side of Washington Park.sue personett wrote:
Lesson: dont give your roofers beers until the are mostly finished.
- TallGrass
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Re: Pikes Peak Summit house options
Architects draft curved roofs, framers build them. Roofers only shingle over what's framed and find anything not flat to be a PITA, especially if paid by square. Most common are cones which they have to soberly fit each shingle by hand with a hatchet into a "A" trapezoids. Any compound curve roof would require A and V ones. The extra labor and scrapped materials makes it wa$$$$teful among other disadvantages making it a poor design functionally, especially for a summit house. Comp is cheaper and easier while slate or Spanish will increase their drinking... after work. Articulated flat sections are a good compromise (works on geodesics), sometimes retrofitted to previously curved roofs. While aesthetic, shingles are a very bad choice for something atop a 14er, or even in Longs' Boulder Field (see the "The Hull Cook Journals" ).peter303 wrote:Theres a wavy roof house on the southeast side of Washington Park. Lesson: dont give your roofers beers until the are mostly finished.
"A few hours' mountain climbing make of a rogue and a saint two fairly equal creatures.
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- XPLSV
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Re: Pikes Peak Summit house options
I do like the donuts...but what was really creeping into my mind was a small craft brewing operation in one corner...rijaca wrote:All that is needed....Of course if they wanted to continue to sell donuts, I would suggest something like this...
Bernie
______________
It's an interglacial period...
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It's an interglacial period...
- jesusfreak1824
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Re: Pikes Peak Summit house options
I also agree with Cruiser.Cruiser wrote:Agree with wildlobo. Pikes Peak is going to get a new summit complex. If that's a given, then why not create something really exceptional up there? I love the idea of having a large summit structure with plenty of glass so that tourists can take in the exceptional, and for many of them once-in-a-lifetime, views that such a lofty vantage point has to offer. Yes, many will consider it an eyesore. But at this point there's gonna be an eyesore up there either way so why not invest in making it a real fine eyesore?
If they're going to build something else up there, which seems inevitable and almost necessary given the condition of the current summit house, it should be something that compliments the experience and beauty of that peak. I've lived everyday of my life gazing up at that peak and I've not known it without the summit house so having something up there isn't an issue. What it looks like and how it impacts the summit is definitely an issue. After reading through the Summit House presentation on the Springs' website, it's clear that they're being diligent in making sure that they put the focus on the peak itself and not on the building. And we all have to admit that at one point or another, the thought of being able to drive or take a train up to the top of a 14er was quite enticing. Consequently, Pikes Peak is a place that beckons many to her summit so accommodations have to be made. Yes, it should be a building that respects the natural beauty of Pikes but it should also be a building that us Coloradans can be proud of to have on her summit.
With that said, I think option 1 and 2 are both worthy candidates that provide those who aren't capable of gaining the summit themselves an unforgettable experience nonetheless. Option 1 obviously has the least impact on the peak and remains low key focusing on the history of the peak and respecting it's summit. As an admirer of architecture, I like Option 2 because of it's intentional and intelligent design that creates a building with little impact on the view from below while simultaneously providing an exciting view for those from on top but it does take a bit more away from actual summit. I think they're heading in the right direction and with a holistic perspective, catering to both those who still wish to see what the peak has to offer but aren't able to except to drive and to those who ultimately respect the peak above all else.
"The mountains are calling and I must go." -John Muir
"Climbing brings nothing to humanity. I climb for myself and for the joy of the sport." -Ueli Steck
"Climbing mountains is the only thing I know that combines the best of the physical, spiritual, and emotional world all rolled into one." -Steve Gladbach
"Climbing brings nothing to humanity. I climb for myself and for the joy of the sport." -Ueli Steck
"Climbing mountains is the only thing I know that combines the best of the physical, spiritual, and emotional world all rolled into one." -Steve Gladbach
- justiner
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Re: Pikes Peak Summit house options
I do think an argument can be made that, "a building that respects the natural beauty of Pikes" is no building at all. And no paved road to the top. And no cog railway.
The argument would also follow that you cannot improve upon nature.
The counter argument is that nature and Her resources are there to exploit for our gain, so let's get to building (Cha-ching!) That's the argument that has won, if only because historical momentum.
The argument would also follow that you cannot improve upon nature.
The counter argument is that nature and Her resources are there to exploit for our gain, so let's get to building (Cha-ching!) That's the argument that has won, if only because historical momentum.
- jesusfreak1824
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Re: Pikes Peak Summit house options
And if we were to follow that logic to it's conclusion, if we were to "respect the natural beauty of Pikes" to the fullest extent, it would be no human contact whatsoever...no paved road to the top...no cog railway...no hiking...no climbing...no skiing or snowboarding...no races or marathons...no summiting...no steps set afoot on her slopes at all. That's ultimately the best way we can respect the natural beauty of not only Pikes Peak but of every natural feature of interest in this world. That's like when your grandparents would yell at you for playing on the grass in the yard or for sitting on the nice couch or using the fancy dinnerware. It's there for us to use and to care for and to enjoy. Now I'm not saying that with that thought process we should just build a theme park or a stadium on top with no regards to the peak. By no means! But what I am saying is that if there is to be something on top of Pikes, if there is to be something attracting hundreds of thousands of people on top, it should be something that educates and inspires those who visit to care for and protect the pristine and delicate alpine environments in our state as well as those around the world while interacting with it.justiner wrote:I do think an argument can be made that, "a building that respects the natural beauty of Pikes" is no building at all. And no paved road to the top. And no cog railway.
The argument would also follow that you cannot improve upon nature.
The counter argument is that nature and Her resources are there to exploit for our gain, so let's get to building (Cha-ching!) That's the argument that has won, if only because historical momentum.
Justiner, you're looking at it from both extremes: either we don't build anything and keep it as the Lord made it or we capitalize on the attraction of this beautiful peak and wring her out for all the money she's worth. But what about the delicate balance between the two? What about creating a place that can make money to help take care of the peak with an interactive and educational mountaintop experience found in the summit house as well as a place that promotes alpine preservation and healthy stewardship of our high places? If we're going to be here (Earth in general, Pikes Peak specifically), let's learn how to create a balance between humanity and what humanity calls home. Sure, it takes lots of work and intentionality but it will also last far beyond our generation.
"The mountains are calling and I must go." -John Muir
"Climbing brings nothing to humanity. I climb for myself and for the joy of the sport." -Ueli Steck
"Climbing mountains is the only thing I know that combines the best of the physical, spiritual, and emotional world all rolled into one." -Steve Gladbach
"Climbing brings nothing to humanity. I climb for myself and for the joy of the sport." -Ueli Steck
"Climbing mountains is the only thing I know that combines the best of the physical, spiritual, and emotional world all rolled into one." -Steve Gladbach
- Wish I lived in CO
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Re: Pikes Peak Summit house options
I hear what you're saying. However Pikes peak (and Evans) are only two peaks. There's many peaks (most peaks for that matter) out there that don't have roads or buildings. A few commercialized peaks are fine to allow the physically unable and in general anyone not wanting to hike to get to a nice summit. I'm sure the tourism dollars are a boost for the area.justiner wrote:I do think an argument can be made that, "a building that respects the natural beauty of Pikes" is no building at all. And no paved road to the top. And no cog railway.
The argument would also follow that you cannot improve upon nature.
The counter argument is that nature and Her resources are there to exploit for our gain, so let's get to building (Cha-ching!) That's the argument that has won, if only because historical momentum.
I look up to the mountains - does my help come from there? My help comes from the Lord, who made heaven and earth! Psalm 121:1-2
- justiner
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Re: Pikes Peak Summit house options
Playing devil's advocate (as I have), you usually are moved to extremes in your examples. My point really is, the summit house is not a pretty place now, and is used at least partly for selling fast food and tourist kitsch. That's an easy thing to agree on (I hope). So that's the present.jesusfreak1824 wrote: Justiner, you're looking at it from both extremes: either we don't build anything and keep it as the Lord made it or we capitalize on the attraction of this beautiful peak and wring her out for all the money she's worth. But what about the delicate balance between the two? What about creating a place that can make money to help take care of the peak with an interactive and educational mountaintop experience found in the summit house as well as a place that promotes alpine preservation and healthy stewardship of our high places? If we're going to be here (Earth in general, Pikes Peak specifically), let's learn how to create a balance between humanity and what humanity calls home. Sure, it takes lots of work and intentionality but it will also last far beyond our generation.
I am not going to hold my breath that somehow there will be a sea change in the immediate future (and, why should I?). These drawings are all very nice, but they are also very early renderings. A safe bet is that if a new summit house is finally created, they'll look a far cry from these renderings, and the purpose of the summit house will be far removed from the righteous things you've listed. I don't really have much trust in the CO Springs city government to make the ethical choice on matters of conservation and preservation.
One thing you may notice is that all these new summit houses are much larger than the previous. They want attract more visitors, even though visitation rates have been declining. They will also want a return on their investment. This isn't a good recipe for "promoting alpine preservation and healthy stewardship of our high places". This region has been synonymous with exploitation of a natural resource since, "Pikes Peak or Bust!" was coined. The Summit is where, "America the Beautiful" was inspired 100+ years ago, and where I can see Victor's enormous open pit mine presently. I am not, (to state again) pondering that this train of thought will change anytime in the future. This is the Normal, and that's why a summit house makes sense now in the area, and why a bigger, better-in-every-way summit house will happen in the future.
:shrug: Just tossing that all out there. Why shouldn't I cast a squinting, critical eye on all this? Because I should be dazzled at a glass building that looks like a 2-story skyscraper I can find most anywhere? Dazzle wore off, for me
- highpilgrim
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Re: Pikes Peak Summit house options
The summit house is an exercise in creativity. Hire a creative architect and give them the room to breathe and the results can be different from what you might expect.
For example, consider the museum recently built for Reinhold Messner. Dedicated and about one of the world's greatest alpinists, it needed to frame views, provide cutting edge museum display space AND not mar the landscape.
Enter the architect, Zaha Hadid, and you get this:
You might argue that stylistically it is not your thing (it certainly is not the Storybook Style house pictured earlier in the thread), but it does create a dynamic space, with incredible views and is at the same time not very disruptive to the alpine terrain where it resides.
Hire a decent architect and approach the project with an open mind and you're more likely to get the results you want.
For example, consider the museum recently built for Reinhold Messner. Dedicated and about one of the world's greatest alpinists, it needed to frame views, provide cutting edge museum display space AND not mar the landscape.
Enter the architect, Zaha Hadid, and you get this:
You might argue that stylistically it is not your thing (it certainly is not the Storybook Style house pictured earlier in the thread), but it does create a dynamic space, with incredible views and is at the same time not very disruptive to the alpine terrain where it resides.
Hire a decent architect and approach the project with an open mind and you're more likely to get the results you want.
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Walk away from the droning and leave the hive behind.
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- jesusfreak1824
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Re: Pikes Peak Summit house options
Justiner, I absolutely hear you and understand what you're saying and unfortunately agree with you on how things have been handled in the past/present concerning the peak. And I'll admit that I have an optimistic ideology concerning the marketing and business tactics of the whole situation. I have high hopes that those involved in the ultimate decision process would consider the interests of the peak more than the interest of their investors but clearly, that's not why people do "business." And I appreciate your cynical (for lack of a better term) viewpoint because that's what has been happening to the peak since it's first human interaction and it helps us to see that we, as humans, have not looked toward the needs of others or the needs of the environment around us but rather toward our own selfish desires.
After looking at some of the discussions from the summit house presentation, there have been concerns about making the summit house/experience a place to educate people about the mountains and human impact on alpine ecosystems so at least there is consideration for alpine stewardship involved in the planning process. But (as I will agree with you), that's not going to be the main purpose of the summit house. However, we have entered a time in our world when people are starting to notice how human interaction has affected the world around us. We're starting to see the consequences of our actions, whether it be the destruction of precious aquatic habitats caused by damming major river systems or the steady decline of our polar ice caps and glaciers or the extinction of hundreds of animal species within the last few generations. Humans are the worst thing for the world when we choose not to care about it or protect it so that it will outlast us. But when we do decide that enough is enough and begin to restore things to the way they should be before we had our way with it, the change is astonishing. I mean, look at what Yvon Chouinard and Douglas Tompkins (may he rest in peace) have done in Patagonia, Argentina.
I'm simply hoping that a change of summit houses on Pikes Peak will lead to a change in worldview concerning our alpine environments in Colorado because they are in a position to be able to cast that vision and inspire hundreds of thousands of visitors each year into caring for our mountains in a way that they have not been able to before. Justiner, I don't expect you to be in awe of another building on what we all feel should be a building free peak because you are already aware of the needs of that environment and already care for it in ways that others don't. But there are millions of people in this country (billions in the world) who aren't aware and who visit that peak now and aren't any better off with knowing how to care for the mountains but I believe that an intentional summit house can do that, maybe even more so than no house or buildings at all. You say that "this isn't a good recipe for promoting alpine preservation and healthy stewardship of our high places" but I may have to disagree, only as long as the summit house can effectively communicate the importance of protecting our peaks. They could very well be in the best position to be able to do that with a better facility which caters to more people. That means more people are hearing about how to care for the mountains in a very interactive environment and more people are starting to look at the mountains differently than they were before. And I'm looking at more than just Pikes Peak herself but at the alpine locale in general, for all mountains across the globe. Has Pikes Peak been affected negatively by human impact and tourist traffic over the years? Absolutely yes! But can a new summit house on Pikes Peak create a place for people to prevent that from happening on other peaks? Absolutely yes! Again, I have a very optimistic view of this but the pieces seem to be in place to allow this to actually happen.
I do suggest that you visit those with the Pikes Peak Summit Complex Project, as should all who have an interest in the peak, and give them your 2 cents. It may have more of an impact than you think and it could make a huge difference with the final result.
After looking at some of the discussions from the summit house presentation, there have been concerns about making the summit house/experience a place to educate people about the mountains and human impact on alpine ecosystems so at least there is consideration for alpine stewardship involved in the planning process. But (as I will agree with you), that's not going to be the main purpose of the summit house. However, we have entered a time in our world when people are starting to notice how human interaction has affected the world around us. We're starting to see the consequences of our actions, whether it be the destruction of precious aquatic habitats caused by damming major river systems or the steady decline of our polar ice caps and glaciers or the extinction of hundreds of animal species within the last few generations. Humans are the worst thing for the world when we choose not to care about it or protect it so that it will outlast us. But when we do decide that enough is enough and begin to restore things to the way they should be before we had our way with it, the change is astonishing. I mean, look at what Yvon Chouinard and Douglas Tompkins (may he rest in peace) have done in Patagonia, Argentina.
I'm simply hoping that a change of summit houses on Pikes Peak will lead to a change in worldview concerning our alpine environments in Colorado because they are in a position to be able to cast that vision and inspire hundreds of thousands of visitors each year into caring for our mountains in a way that they have not been able to before. Justiner, I don't expect you to be in awe of another building on what we all feel should be a building free peak because you are already aware of the needs of that environment and already care for it in ways that others don't. But there are millions of people in this country (billions in the world) who aren't aware and who visit that peak now and aren't any better off with knowing how to care for the mountains but I believe that an intentional summit house can do that, maybe even more so than no house or buildings at all. You say that "this isn't a good recipe for promoting alpine preservation and healthy stewardship of our high places" but I may have to disagree, only as long as the summit house can effectively communicate the importance of protecting our peaks. They could very well be in the best position to be able to do that with a better facility which caters to more people. That means more people are hearing about how to care for the mountains in a very interactive environment and more people are starting to look at the mountains differently than they were before. And I'm looking at more than just Pikes Peak herself but at the alpine locale in general, for all mountains across the globe. Has Pikes Peak been affected negatively by human impact and tourist traffic over the years? Absolutely yes! But can a new summit house on Pikes Peak create a place for people to prevent that from happening on other peaks? Absolutely yes! Again, I have a very optimistic view of this but the pieces seem to be in place to allow this to actually happen.
I do suggest that you visit those with the Pikes Peak Summit Complex Project, as should all who have an interest in the peak, and give them your 2 cents. It may have more of an impact than you think and it could make a huge difference with the final result.
"The mountains are calling and I must go." -John Muir
"Climbing brings nothing to humanity. I climb for myself and for the joy of the sport." -Ueli Steck
"Climbing mountains is the only thing I know that combines the best of the physical, spiritual, and emotional world all rolled into one." -Steve Gladbach
"Climbing brings nothing to humanity. I climb for myself and for the joy of the sport." -Ueli Steck
"Climbing mountains is the only thing I know that combines the best of the physical, spiritual, and emotional world all rolled into one." -Steve Gladbach
- username72
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Re: Pikes Peak Summit house options
I think option #3 is going to boost Pike's Peak past 14,130 easily...... Does that mean that any future ascents of it are going to require reaching the rooftop?